Bahamas Diving-Split from Spiegel Accident

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Regardless of the amount of tanks being used, if there isn't sufficient training or gas planning, these dives are reckless at best.

 

[idocsteve]

I think it's reckless to allow divers to go deeper and into environments for which they are untrained.

I'm in.

Definitely on my list of things to do before I die, and hopefully will not be the last thing I do.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I havent a clue what your statement means, or what you are implying perhaps you could explain.

It's a forum, sometimes people make stuff up. Call or email if you want the truth.

 

[idocsteve]

It's a forum, sometimes people make stuff up. Call or email if you want the truth.

That won't work!

People make stuff up in emails and during phone calls too.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

That won't work!

People make stuff up in emails and during phone calls too.

I must admit that the thought of diving to 225' on air using a single AL80 seems a little surrealistic to me. If someone described it to me as an "advanced" dive for any operation I'd have thought they were making things up. Maybe, maybe not. I look forward to hearing what the operator has to say if one of their "tech" instructors would be so kind as to log in and clarify the matter for us.

 

[idocsteve]

I must admit that the thought of diving to 225' on air using a single AL80 seems a little surrealistic to me. If someone described it to me as an "advanced" dive for any operation I'd have thought they were making things up. Maybe, maybe not. I look forward to hearing what the operator has to say if one of their "tech" instructors would be so kind as to log in and clarify the matter for us.

Let's speculate on what a representative from that company might say if they were to post here, and be completely honest.

"It's a great marketing idea, which fills a niche that no one else has thought of before. Let's take divers to sites that are beyond their skill and training levels, and give them a thrill that they won't get anywhere else and probably won't experience during their lives unless they pursue a costly and time consuming certification that they probably won't use all that often. Yes there's a certain degree of risk but we have them sign those waivers first, and usually that keeps dive ops out of trouble. And if we get sued and have to make a big pay out, we'll just close down our operation and open up under a different corporate name. But so far, no one has gotten hurt!".

 

[Dr Wu]

Enough with the benefit of doubt.

I am willing to wager Bahamas Resort - Andros Island Bahamas Resort Hotel takes divers to 225fsw into caves with singled 80's on air. I also state that they have no interest in the training the divers have when they charge them for this experience.

Good or bad idea... they do it. And I cannot say I disagree

 

[watboy]

I asked this question regarding this dive on an earlier thread. However, it degenerated into standard SB "divemasters are not masters", "deep spec" does/does not qualify you for deep etc. But, sticking to insurance issues, if something were to go wrong on a 225' dive, would insurance cover it? My DAN asia pac insurance package had two choices, one covered up to 50 meters of depth (165 feet), the other unlimited depth. The unlimited depth however was restricted to diving with proper equipment, gas and training. I took that to mean if i went to 60 meters on al80 of air, and no tec cert, the insurance would no longer cover.

So, in this case. As a customer going to 225' dive on an al80 of air. Would the dive op insurance cover a DCS hit? As a professional taking customers down to 225', well beyond the maximum recognized depth limits of recreational diving, would professional liability insurance cover you if something went wrong?

Again, not a question of whether or not PADI divemasters can dive, or if a deep spec equates to decades of deep diving experience. Purely a legal/insurance question.

 

[Doc Harry]

I dove with them years ago as new diver. They wouldn't let me go to 185, said I didn't have enough experience. I think they do screen who they do and do not allow on those dives, they seemed to know all of the people who did the dive, and all them had done it before and knew what they were getting into. That dive op does a lot of deep air stuff, and the original owner set the record (at the time) for a deep air dive.

Now that I am experienced, I wouldn't do those dives except with doubles, trimix and a deco plan.

 

[beester]

I asked this question regarding this dive on an earlier thread. However, it degenerated into standard SB "divemasters are not masters", "deep spec" does/does not qualify you for deep etc. But, sticking to insurance issues, if something were to go wrong on a 225' dive, would insurance cover it? My DAN asia pac insurance package had two choices, one covered up to 50 meters of depth (165 feet), the other unlimited depth. The unlimited depth however was restricted to diving with proper equipment, gas and training. I took that to mean if i went to 60 meters on al80 of air, and no tec cert, the insurance would no longer cover.

So, in this case. As a customer going to 225' dive on an al80 of air. Would the dive op insurance cover a DCS hit? As a professional taking customers down to 225', well beyond the maximum recognized depth limits of recreational diving, would professional liability insurance cover you if something went wrong?

Again, not a question of whether or not PADI divemasters can dive, or if a deep spec equates to decades of deep diving experience. Purely a legal/insurance question.

As far as I know DAN Europe (beware there is a regulation difference between DAN USA, DAN EUROPE, DAN ASIA) does not have a depth limit in it's policy for air dives.

- You have to keep to local country regulations (for example red sea, Egypt = 130 feet)
- if you are participating in rec tech diving (definition is diving trimix or heliox deeper than 50m) you may not exceed a ppo² of 1.4 or a ppn² of 3.95)
- If you you want to dive deeper than 130 m (426 feet) you need to contact DAN europe prior to this dive to discuss insurance.

There are no additional remarks / entries regarding diving on air. It even specifically stated that the rectec limits do not apply to diving on air or nitrox. Ie if you dive to 200 feet with air you are covered by DAN europe. If you would do this same dive on 21/35 trimix you would not be covered (ppo² above 1.4 bar)