Basic Vertecon 13cfm questions...

[CraigAClark]

If you set the PMV to 240 bar it will not let any gas down stream of the filter tower that isn't above that set pressure. Until the down stream pressure equals the set pressure, the PMV will not open fully. The only way you can accomplish your goal is what I suggested earlier. BTW, you are right about the on/off cycling being bad for the unit.

To the person mentioning the water cooling before the separators, be careful that your auto drain cycle and duration gets rid of all condensate.

 

[geko21]

If you set the PMV to 240 bar it will not let any gas down stream of the filter tower that isn't above that set pressure. Until the down stream pressure equals the set pressure, the PMV will not open fully. The only way you can accomplish your goal is what I suggested earlier. BTW, you are right about the on/off cycling being bad for the unit.

To the person mentioning the water cooling before the separators, be careful that your auto drain cycle and duration gets rid of all condensate.

Thanks, now I get it! Can you recommend a good safety valve for the manifold?

 

[rddvet]

Install a good quality, high volume venting safety on the manifold inlet port.

Do you have an example of a good one?p
orry. Didn't see the last post before mine.

 

[ti325v]

Hey Craig:

If you set the PMV to 240 bar it will not let any gas down stream of the filter tower that isn't above that set pressure. Until the down stream pressure equals the set pressure, the PMV will not open fully. The only way you can accomplish your goal is what I suggested earlier. BTW, you are right about the on/off cycling being bad for the unit.

To the person mentioning the water cooling before the separators, be careful that your auto drain cycle and duration gets rid of all condensate.

I only cool after the final, a waste of time to to cool interstage, it is not that hot here.
Problem is self limiting on the coltri, 27 minutes to fill four tanks, drains separators at 15 minutes and again when change tanks. No auto drains on the coltri.

K-14 has autodrains, set up and timed well.

Thanks for the concern, in reality I get a minimal amount of additional water out, it is just that I get it in the final separator, also addressed by using two final separators on each compressor. 2nd one catches anything that got by the first and yeah I do get a few drops out of it.

---------- Post added March 26th, 2015 at 04:46 PM ----------

If you want to spend money (A lot of money) get the adjustable (All are) O.E.M. 225 BAR Coltri, just check the threads first, they may not be 1/4 N.P.T.
If you need me to check I can, call compressor stuff in the usa. Ray can tell you.
The coltri is dead simple with 2 moving parts inside, very reliable. the only thing that fails is the spool o-ring if you blow it a lot, which I do, a ten minute and 10 cent fix every 400 running hours or so.


Easiest to get are aqua enviroment..much cheaper as well, but require rebuild kits.
Relief Valves On Aqua Environment Co., Inc.
There are two types of OPV.. the kind used interstage which pop open fully and quickly and are not designed to release often. Be sure to use one designed for final OPV, designed to release all the time and open gradually.
FFS, DO NOT get a Bauer, stupid complicated, no parts available...buy the whole unit with about 20 parts inside, versus the coltri 2 moving parts.

 

[ti325v]

240 Bar

I forgot to add, the Coltri is available in 225 and 300 BAR versions, my 225 will adjust up to about 250 Bar. I noticed you are filling to 240.

I only cool after the final, a waste of time to to cool interstage, it is not that hot here.
Problem is self limiting on the coltri, 27 minutes to fill four tanks, drains separators at 15 minutes and again when change tanks. No auto drains on the coltri.

K-14 has autodrains, set up and timed well.

Thanks for the concern, in reality I get a minimal amount of additional water out, it is just that I get it in the final separator, also addressed by using two final separators on each compressor. 2nd one catches anything that got by the first and yeah I do get a few drops out of it.

---------- Post added March 26th, 2015 at 04:46 PM ----------

If you want to spend money (A lot of money) get the adjustable (All are) O.E.M. 225 BAR Coltri, just check the threads first, they may not be 1/4 N.P.T.
If you need me to check I can, call compressor stuff in the usa. Ray can tell you.
The coltri is dead simple with 2 moving parts inside, very reliable. the only thing that fails is the spool o-ring if you blow it a lot, which I do, a ten minute and 10 cent fix every 400 running hours or so.
View attachment 205429

Easiest to get are aqua enviroment..much cheaper as well, but require rebuild kits.
Relief Valves On Aqua Environment Co., Inc.
There are two types of OPV.. the kind used interstage which pop open fully and quickly and are not designed to release often. Be sure to use one designed for final OPV, designed to release all the time and open gradually.
FFS, DO NOT get a Bauer, stupid complicated, no parts available...buy the whole unit with about 20 parts inside, versus the coltri 2 moving parts.

 

[CraigAClark]

I forgot to add, the Coltri is available in 225 and 300 BAR versions, my 225 will adjust up to about 250 Bar. I noticed you are filling to 240.

Those Coltri safeties may not be rated for a 13 cfm out put. Be a good idea to check. I was thinking along the lines of Kunkle or Bauer. I'd much rather trust German engineering than Italian. Forget the AE 504, it is designed more along the lines of a burst disc and will not hold up to repeated venting cycles.

I have a question, do you folks know how most compressor manufacturers come up with the fill rate cfm of the block?

 

[ti325v]

Those Coltri safeties may not be rated for a 13 cfm out put. Be a good idea to check. I was thinking along the lines of Kunkle or Bauer. I'd much rather trust German engineering than Italian. Forget the AE 504, it is designed more along the lines of a burst disc and will not hold up to repeated venting cycles.
I have a question, do you folks know how most compressor manufacturers come up with the fill rate cfm of the block?

I did say in my previous post to be sure not to use a 'Pop" type valve.
There are two types of OPV.. the kind used interstage which pop open fully and quickly and are not designed to release often. Be sure to use one designed for final OPV, designed to release often and open gradually.

Pictured is the same OPV that Coltri puts on the mch 18. (The 16 spinning at 1,500 R.P.M.)
Just about 11.7 Cu Ft. But I agree it is worth checking. If indeed the Veritcons real output is 13 CFM.
I do not know which block is in it.

Craig I am sure you have taken apart both Bauer and Coltri OPV`s, as have I.
The Bauer is well over $200, they will not sell you parts for it.
It has the spring, ball, stem and the washers in it.
The coltri is just like an H.P. gauge spool that moves in and out of a cylinder against adjustable spring pressure.
One o-ring. The only thing that could reasonably break, costs like 2 cents and can be replaced in minutes.

I have seen the bauer opv`s have the ball stick, the spring break, the washers corrode, on some older ones, even the ball seat corrode so it was a throw away. Heck all are throw always because you cannot buy these parts.

FYI,

The A.E, 1607 and the 504 are rated at 100 SCFM at 3000 psi

Specifications Model 1607 High Pressure Relief Valve

Series Designation​

1607 Series​

Type Relief Valve
Maximum Rated Pressure: 7500 psi
Outlet Pressure Setting Range/Adjustment Range: - 300-7500 psi
Inlet Port Size: 1/4 in. MNPT
Outlet Port Size Side vent; Not captured

Flow Capacity: 50 SCFM at 1500 psi
100 SCFM at 3000 psi


The 504 is also 100 CFM at 3000 psi

The model 504 is an economical, small, high pressure relief valve having excellent set pressure control over a large pressure range to 6000 PSI. It stays bubble tight to within a few PSI of set pressure and reseals bubble tight even after many vent cycles. Safety wire holes are provided for optional locking of set pressure adjustment.

SPECIFICATIONS

• Set pressure ----- adj. 300 to 6000 PSI
• Leakage bubble tight
• Max. fiow (air) --- 100 SCFM at 3000 PSI; 50 SCFM at 1500 PSI
• Equivalent orifice — .078 inch dia. gas or liquid
• Inlet ----- 1/4 male NPT
Outlet side vent
• Size 0.875" hex by 2.33" long
• Temperatures--------- -40F to 160F
• Materials bronze, anodized aluminum, & Viton

Looking at the drawing of the valve, it does not seem to be of the 'Pop" type, but I would check. I have one here, maybe I will take it apart and have a look, or just stick in on free port on my manifold to see how it behaves.

I have both and if given the choice, money no object, I would probably stick with the Coltri. I do not disagree with you in general, but Bauer seems to over engineer some stuff to the point of non-sense.

 

[geko21]

Thanks Craig, thanks ti325v for the useful input on the valves. What about these: August Industries - Safety Relief Valve 1000-5000 PSI ?

I have a second question. After the first run of the compressor yesterday, I observe a slow but steady drop in the back pressure of the filter chamber. After turn off it stayed pressurized to 240bar but the pressure has dropped to 130bar this morning (over about 11 hours). I have observed this with the small Bauer compressors but kind of expected this big thing to hold it's pressure better. Is this normal and if not, how to troubleshoot, as this kind of slow leak would not be easily detectable... ?

 

[CraigAClark]

Although that AE 211, PMV is not bubble tight, it shouldn't loose that kind of pressure over night, even taking in to consideration the lose of pressure when the tower cooled off to ambient. If there are no external leaks, I would look at the check valve between the final separator and filter tower.

 

[geko21]

...If there are no external leaks, I would look at the check valve between the final separator and filter tower.

I am looking at it very intently right now... it doesn't seem to move

Just joking. Thanks, I got it and will see if a few more cycles will make a difference. If not, we will have to take something apart. What is the acceptable pressure for long term idle state of the filter chamber? What pressure is too low or is it just that it has to be kept above ambient? My understanding has always been that it just has to be above ambient, but I see that some poople seem to aim for high pressures.