BCD or BP/Wings for the new diver?

[MikeFerrara]

I don't think there would even be discussions like this if they taught anything about equipment configuration in entry level classes. If I had a nickle for every dangling octo or consol I see in a season I'd be a rich man.

If you look at the options a harness provides as a part of the whole configuration then you see where it really shines.

If you try to clean up all the stuff that sticks out and dangles with a bc you'll find many of the problems. They work fine if you don't mind a loop of hose sticking out here and there and maybe a big floppy consol hanging off a retractor.

 

[-hh]

Jambi once bubbled...
Would a new diver be better off with a quality BCD or BP/Wings? That is my Dilemma. I am a very new diver and very enthusiastic about my new found sport.

Yes, we all were quite enthusiastic at first. However, the reality is that studies have shown that there is an amazingly high drop-out rate...the last number I heard was that 75% dropped within the first ~2 years.

The generic implication is that anything you buy today only has a 25% chance of actually being used long enough that the A-vs-B choice even has a chance of becoming relevant. This is partly because your novice skills are unlikely to be developed to the point that your variation in performance is actually due to the equipment instead of you.

The consequence of this is that one philosophy is to suggest to new divers that they resist the temptation of investing too much money in their gear until they are more than sure that they're going to stick with the sport long term.

I have read the posts and weighed the pros/cons of each system and have boiled it down to this, it all depends on the diver and what kind of diving that diver will be doing. I will be sticking with recreational diving for the next 2-3 years until I feel my skills increase to where they need to be. I WILL progress into technical diving (wife permitting); it just won't be next week.

Agreed, and IMO, you've made a very wise choice in not jumping too quickly into Technical diving (even though I personally consider even 2-3 years of experience to still be very "quick").

I also strongly feel you "get what you pay for" and "you are better off paying now and getting it done right the first time".

Me too, but only after I've determined beyond any shadow of a doubt that my interest/hobby has not been some "flash in the pan". This uncertainty element is a legitimate purchase decision factor that promotes a lesser initial investment.

Either way I will probably end up spending 400-500 regardless of the type of system I opt for.

An alternative to consider is to watch your local Classified Ads to find the novice who went through the same thing ~3 years ago and bought good gear, who's now selling it his $500 BC for $200 because they became a non-diver for whatever reason (lost interest, new baby, bought a house, etc).

I am very interested in hearing from other divers that went through the same problem and had success and are happy or wish they went with a different system than they had.

Its only as big of a problem as you choose to make it.

And while good diving equipment is an enabler, your biggest performance variable right now is your development of good diving skills: excellence in the diver transcends these equipment variation questions to a secondary -- dare I say minor? -- role.


-hh

 

[richies]

You may also find that you are limited to what an instructor can help you with.

Any fool can float heads-up in a jacket BC - the design, while not a life-jacket, will keep you upright in the water, pretty much regardless of how you have you weight/tank.

A BP/Wing combo is not so forgiving - it has to be set up properly, with the correct weight in the correct position, to be as effective and safe as it can be. This is probably why jacket BCs continue to be doled out to trainees - the instructors have one less thing to worry about. And there aren't many mainstream instructors who are familiar with the setup and weight issues of a BP/Wing

Then again, with the growing popularity of wings, and particularly single-tank wings, you may find that a BP/Wing combo will hold it's value better than a jacket, should you decide to stop diving.

cheers

r

 

[Jambi]

First off let me say thanks for all the replies. It really is great to be able to post questions to those that are experienced in the dive community. Now for some replies of my own.

I agree that I am going to have to try stuff out, I am currently in the process of doing this. I can forsee this process taking at least a year and wish to have between 50-70 dives before I make a purchase decision. You can't get any better than try before you by.

The only prob's i have run into is with everyone else i dive with. No one i know dives with a B/P wing setup so durning my class and dives i have to teach my buddy my system (necklace backup, no quick release, blah, blah) Not to much trouble although doing the rescue drills where your buddy takes off your BC while giving rescue breaths and stuff proved to be a task when i was the victim for my buddy. he wasn't used to having no releases on the shoulders. But he worked it out pretty well.

I have the pleasure to be an EMT Skills instructor at a local college and routinely have 250-300 students a year pass through the classes. All meaning I have developed a incredible amount of patience for teaching people things that have absolutely no clue about EMS or rescue techniques, So hopefully that will not be too much of a problem as long as I am familiar with the equipment myself.

I don't think there would even be discussions like this if they taught anything about equipment configuration in entry level classes.

Mikeferrara I wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel as if I was short changed when It came to equipment education. Just because It was not in then PADI book is no reason not to make students familar with what is out there. I have read many of your other posts and have come to respect and agree with many of your opinions and points of view. Perhaps when I am ready to buy equipment I can buy it from you and just have it shipped. The extra charges would be worth it to deal with a LDS that respects it's customers.

Yes, we all were quite enthusiastic at first. However, the reality is that studies have shown that there is an amazingly high drop-out rate...

hh- agreed, I to have thought about this. I have allowed my self to become victim of impulse buying (paintball) but have since learned my lesson. Before I spend 2k on equipment I will be sure this is not a fleeting interest.

(even though I personally consider even 2-3 years of experience to still be very "quick").

The more I think about this the more I agree with you.

your biggest performance variable right now is your development of good diving skills: excellence in the diver transcends these equipment variation questions to a secondary -- dare I say minor? -- role.

The field of Emergency Medical Services (think EMTs, Paramedics and Ambulances) suffers from (I hate to say it) allot of this. People relying on equipment to do the job and neglecting development of sound Patient Assessment and Treatment Skills, along with the ability to critically think. Too often I have seen a poor paramedic or EMT get by because they have the equipment to do the work for them. Unfortunately, if you take said equipment away from that paramedic or EMT you are now stuck with some one that cannot perform under the stress and is without the ability to adapt to a changing environment. On the other hand if you have a good paramedic or EMT that has the necessary skills and abilities and take the equipment away you still have a person that can adapt and ultimately overcome the situation or problems and prevail. Now from my understanding this is exactly the problems with divers today, relying on the equipment instead of their brain and ignoring the fact that tools will only take you so far if you can not use them properly. I for one am always working to improve my skills and abilities. If not for the increase of enjoyment and opportunities that open up from being good at what you do, then for the fact that I do not wish to die. Although I am worth more dead that alive. Unfortunately a life insurance premium cannot make for having your daddy around for baseball games, that first step and Christmas to name only a few.

hh- you make some very good points. Aswell as everybody else that posted. thank you.

Jambi

 

[divegeek]

I've been diving less than a year and a 1/2, with a total of 13 Dives. I rented for my OW (Jacket Style), Borrowed an Oceanic Chute 3 (back inflate) for my AOW and rented a BP/Wing on my last dive.

I ended up buying an Oxycheq wing (30#) and a Koplin SS plate with the Lightweight STA. I haven't had a chance to dive with it, but I can't wait. From what I've heard, I probably should have gone with the 45# wing.

I'm not a tech diver (having only dived in happy tropical water) but I didn't like all the crap on regular BC's (like the stupid integrated weight pockets). I didn't have a great dive when I rented the BP/Wing (bad seas) but I went with it anyway. To me, after a lot of on-line research, it seemed the the BP/Wing just makes more sense.

The only down side for me, was that I thought it was harder to Don and Doff than the regular BC (where I can keep the shoulder straps loose and then pull them tight when I Don the whole thing).

I found that the BC pockets were always too high up to be really useful. I bought a Dive-Rite thigh pocket which I love (it velcro's to the thigh and has a strap up to the waiste strap).

Now I'm trying to convince my 15 year old son that he should go with this setup (This way I can give him the 30# wing and I can get the 45#).

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

If you dive with a bunch of friends who use backplates for casual diving, they will be able to show you all about the gear.

If not, you are better off with a conventional jacket or soft back B/C.

Either way, get someone to show you.

 

[Raven C]

BP & Wing. Nuf said. R

 

[deepdiverbc]

ColdH20diving once bubbled...
I have tried various types of BC's and found that the backplate and wing setup is my favorite. It's simple, comfortable, versatile, easy to clean and takes little time to dry. I'm not a technical diver nor do I agree with everthing DIR has to offer, but once you get away from the sales gimmic BS found in dive magazines you will find that less is better. 99% of my diving is done in cold water with a dry suit. I started out using around 34 pound of lead, with the BP/wings I'm down to about 28.

If possible try out various BC's along with a BP/wing set up before you buy. You will save yourself alot of $$ in the long run and end up with what works best for you.

I am shopping for a BP&W and was choosing the weight on my plate based on the assumption that I would required about 2-3 lbs less lead over my exisiting jacket style BCD. Six pounds is quite a lot. Were you a bit overweighted when you started out or is all of the six pounds saved due to the BP&W?

 

[paulwlee]

I'm not sure what ColdH2ODiving meant in his post, but the most widely used stainless steel backplates are 6lbs negative, so you move the weight off of your belt to the plate. Hence you wear 6lbs less on your belt.

 

[deepdiverbc]

paulwlee once bubbled...
I'm not sure what ColdH2ODiving meant in his post, but the most widely used stainless steel backplates are 6lbs negative, so you move the weight off of your belt to the plate. Hence you wear 6lbs less on your belt.

I have heard from some BP&W users that they required less total ballast with a BP&W than they did with a conventional BCD because they no longer have the thick back pad and pouches that create inherant bouyancy within the BCD. I have yet to test this theory but it seems logical. Six pounds of difference however seems questionable, I was expecting something closer to 2-3 lbs or less.