BCD Recommendation

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

It's really not about a Jacket vs BP/W since the OP said they wanted a Back Inflate. Some folks simply have this mindset that no matter what BC you have, to "advance" in your diving you have to switch to a BP/W and that you will "outgrow" anything else. I've been diving all through the Caribbean, the Keys, some of the Pacific, and off the coast of NC and I have yet to see a DM in a BP/W. Many of these folks dive for a living every day. I guess someone needs to get the word out to them that the need to get a BP/W if they are going to take their diving to the "next level".

Notice that all the places you mention are tropical destinations with mostly recreational open water diving. Instead of looking at the gear that the DM wears, I would urge you to look at the gear that cave instructors wear when they are doing deep cave penetration etc. When buoyancy is really a matter of concern then I have rarely seen BCDs. Now it may be possible to do a cave penetration with BCDs it is not the optimum way of doing it.

Before buying my Back Plate and Wing I tried Jacket BCs and Back inflate BCs in the pool and found the following:

BP Wing > Back inflate BC > Jacket BC.

The reasons are as follows:

1. BP Wing allowed me to lose 3 lbs from my weight belt when I was using it with AL plate and 5 - 6 lbs when I was using a Steel plate. In tropical waters such as the ones you frequently dive, this caused my weight belt to go from 10 lbs to 6 lbs. In cold waters this is a huge advantage because my neoprene drysuit needs 22 lbs of lead for me to sink. With a BCD my weight belt would have to carry all that and it would cause me to float heads up. With a BP and Wing I use a steel plate (5 lbs) and a lead pocket of additional 5 lbs bolted to he plate. This makes my belt only 12 lbs.

2. BCDs never fit properly.If it fits you fine when fully inflated then it will be lose when deflated. If you get the right size while deflated, it will crush my lungs when it is inflated. While floating at the surface, the absence of a crotch strap would always cause me to sink because I have a weight belt and it causes the jacket to ride up because it wants to float. Mad circus. With a BCD and crotch strap the tanks is almost bolted to my back.

3. Most BCDs are over powered. Most of these have 30 - 40 lbs of lift if not more. The interesting thing is that I have never needed 40 lbs of lift when I am diving tropics. I do North Carolina diving with 18 lbs of wing and I feel like I am flying naked!!!

As to your question why do DMs on boats not use these? My own little investigation into this matter revealed the following two reasons:

1. DMs get discounts on gear that the shop sells. Unless it is a tech friendly shop, they will be selling jackets instead of wings. DM would have to buy their own gear at market price.

2. A lot of shops only allow their staff to dive in gear that they sell. I have a friend who is an instructor. He always dives BP wings when he is diving in his own spare time but when coaching a class or leading a dive he has to wear rental bcd.

 

[BDSC]

Notice that all the places you mention are tropical destinations with mostly recreational open water diving. Instead of looking at the gear that the DM wears, I would urge you to look at the gear that cave instructors wear when they are doing deep cave penetration etc. When buoyancy is really a matter of concern then I have rarely seen BCDs. Now it may be possible to do a cave penetration with BCDs it is not the optimum way of doing it.

I thought a BP/W was a BCD. Am I wrong about this?

1. BP Wing allowed me to lose 3 lbs from my weight belt when I was using it with AL plate and 5 - 6 lbs when I was using a Steel plate. In tropical waters such as the ones you frequently dive, this caused my weight belt to go from 10 lbs to 6 lbs. In cold waters this is a huge advantage because my neoprene drysuit needs 22 lbs of lead for me to sink. With a BCD my weight belt would have to carry all that and it would cause me to float heads up. With a BP and Wing I use a steel plate (5 lbs) and a lead pocket of additional 5 lbs bolted to he plate. This makes my belt only 12 lbs.

Then for you the BP/W is likely the perfect choice.

2. BCDs never fit properly.If it fits you fine when fully inflated then it will be lose when deflated. If you get the right size while deflated, it will crush my lungs when it is inflated.

Do you ever need to fully inflate your BP/W? I don't think I have ever fully inflated either of my BC's. If weighted properly, I really don't need to inflate at all during the dive and maybe put a little in when at the surface if I need to float a bit. But I have never been in a dry suit so I have no idea about that.

1. DMs get discounts on gear that the shop sells. Unless it is a tech friendly shop, they will be selling jackets instead of wings. DM would have to buy their own gear at market price.

But maybe a jacket or BI is perfect for the conditions they dive. Maybe they never plan to cave dive. The very best diver I have even been in the water with was a guy named Fernando. He owns Manta Raya Divers in Cozumel. His trim, buoyancy, and air consumption was as good as it gets. He had an old ratty looking bc that had seen it's better days. It was a very old SP jacket. So I asked him near the end of the week why he didn't get something new. So he asked me if I thought a new BC could improve his diving in any way. Enough said.

The bottom line for me is a BP/W may be the perfect choice for some folks but so might a regular BI or a Jacket BC. I don't really look at what gear someone wears to judge how advanced that diver may be. I look at how they dive.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

As to the OP's actual questions: I really liked my Zeagle Stiletto LTD. It was ruggedly built and well designed, extremely adjustable as to fit, and was pretty streamlined/minimalist.

That said, once I learned about what a BP/W was, I bought a used Halcyon rig and never looked back. The Zeagle was very nice, but the BP/W worked better for me and had everything I needed with nothing I didn't. I like the elegantly utilitarian approach of a single piece of webbing, a few pieces of simple and carefully thought-out hardware, and a back plate combined with the right wing for whatever I'm doing. Not to mention that having all of my ballast centered over my back made trim and buoyancy even easier than they were with the back inflate Stiletto. If your exposure protection requires so much ballast that having it all back plate mounted would be unsafe, there are plenty of weight integrated accessories for the harness.

 

[Johanan]

It's really not about a Jacket vs BP/W since the OP said they wanted a Back Inflate.

You are right. Jacket vs. BP/W is sort of iOS / Android issue in Scuba. It is quite relaxing to realize that in most cases you can do what you want with both and chose what you like. That being said, the criteria of discernment one uses might change rapidly even with short experience. When I chose my first BCD my approach was "more is better". I scrutinized the BC's for different features. After 10 dives I realized that I want all this stuff gone. The feeling of freedom was much more important than the "extra features" which attracted me in the descriptions. This is why I'm now fascinated by the simple and clean Express Tech more than by any other BC in the Zeagle line. After converting to BP/W I discovered that what I enjoy most about it, are not some significant "buoyancy characteristics", but how much easier it is to rinse and dry it after the dive. For that reason alone I would not return to my jacket. It takes just a fraction of the space in my closet or bag. But I did not know that before I tried. Testing the gear before buying is wise, indeed. I just would add - test it not only in the pool, but through the whole routine - rinse it, dry it, pack it, etc.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If the OP plans a lot of travel then the Zeagle Express Tech is the shizzle. Order it with the 30 or 35 lb wing and you have plenty of lift for any local diving with singles. A new BPW will set one back in the area of $400 complete. An Express Tech will run about 300. Maybe 350 tops if you add a weight system. But there really is no need to.
This is the way my ET is set up -http://www.diverdaily.com/zeagle-express-tech-buoyancy-compensator-review/
I wouldn't even consider anything more expensive. You'd be paying for a name and a few more features that are likely poorly placed, poorly designed, and trying to fit a mfg's idea of what size you should be. The BPW or ET is going to be a truly custom fit that you decide on.

 

[Penguin1026]

In response to many posts, this is what I am planning on diving in regard to conditions. I will be probably diving mostly in colder water, but I will be traveling many times to warm water, so it has to be good with both temps, and light enough to travel with but also use at home. I will also be using a wetsuit, not a dry suit. If there are any other questions you need to ask me so I can get recommendations, then feel free.
Thanks.
-penguin1026

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You are just screaming for an ET with a 35lb wing.

 

[halocline]

In response to many posts, this is what I am planning on diving in regard to conditions. I will be probably diving mostly in colder water, but I will be traveling many times to warm water, so it has to be good with both temps, and light enough to travel with but also use at home. I will also be using a wetsuit, not a dry suit. If there are any other questions you need to ask me so I can get recommendations, then feel free.
Thanks.
-penguin1026

Really the most useful advice for you at the moment is to try out different styles of BC, including a soft back-inflate and a rigid backplate/wing system. As you have found, this is a hotly discussed topic on SB, in fact it's one of the most common gear-related topics on the board. Do a search for "BP/W vs jacket BC" or "backplate wing" or something like that and watch the millions of threads pop up. This is one gear decision that really does make a difference in your diving enjoyment, and there's simply no way to sort through all the heated rhetoric on both sides of the debate without trying the gear yourself.

The other issue is that it takes a while to get the basics of buoyancy control and trim awareness to even be able to properly evaluate the performance of different types of BCs, so your best bet would be to put off the buying decision for a while until you can do a few dives with the various systems, get some dive experience, and make your decision accordingly. One way to do that is to buy a simple, inexpensive, used BC, that you can later sell at very little loss. This is exactly what I did in my first season of diving, and it worked out perfectly. I got a few dives under my belt and was able to very quickly perceive the differences. Then I bought what I wanted, and many years later I'm still using the same system.

For me, there are huge benefits of a rigid plate that couples the round tank to your flat back, but again, that's my opinion. You need to try these things out. It's not like regulators, where basically anything of moderate or better quality will work extremely well, or computers that, despite the bells and whistles, more-or-less all do the same thing, which is provide time/depth/N2 loading data.

 

[farsidefan1]

Of course! How can we have a BCD recommendation thread without it turning into a BP-WING VS JACKET debate. There is always someone who jumps in yelling "BUT I AM SO HAPPY WITH MY BCD THAT I HAVE NEVER FELT THE NEED TO GROW OUT OF IT." Notice how the same person would also tell you that he or she is a tropical diver. I have rarely seen cave penetration divers, or tech divers say the same.

Sigh. I think you completely missed my point and made it again. I am not the one who tried to turn this into a BP/W vs jacket BC debate. Please take the time to reread my post which was all about how the op needed to try all the systems and decide what they feel best about.
Note my last sentence which you seem to have missed, "On the other hand it is not for everyone if I said that I would be, well, inaccurate".

Now who was it that turned this into a BP/W vs jacket debate? Hmmm. I don't think we need to call in Sherlock to figure it out. Happy diving

 

[TSandM]

Well, the goals for warm water and cold water diving are a little different. In cold water, you want to a) minimize the total ballast you have to carry, and b) find places to stuff all the weight you need, that won't unbalance you so that you can't become horizontal in the water. Accomplishing the first requires that you minimize the amount of floaty stuff you take into the water with you. Many BCs are heavily padded, and can be as much as 3 lbs positive in salt water -- that's three pounds you have to carry that really isn't accomplishing anything but sinking your gear. (Similarly, aluminum tanks are not optimal in cold water, because you have to carry five pounds of lead to keep your empty tank underwater!) Minimizing plastic and padding reduces your total lead requirement.

The second goal can be a little more challenging. It is not unusual around here for a bigger person in heavy neoprene or a neoprene drysuit to require between 30 and 40 lbs of lead. Where do you put it all? Most integrated weight pockets are not designed to carry 20 lbs, and worse, if you put that much weight at your waist, you may never be able to get your feet up out of the bottom. Some BCs have trim pockets, which allow you to move your weight up your body, thus helping the balance issue, but that still leaves you with a massively heavy BC -- which may or may not have the lift to cope with all the weight. If it doesn't, then any time your BC falls in the water without you, it's going to be gone, inflated or not. That means donning your gear in the water is not an option.

One of the reasons backplate setups are so popular in cold water places is that the plate itself becomes part of your ballast, AND removes the padding that requires more weight. And, if you use, for example, a Deep Sea Supply backplate, you can bolt weight plates to your rig, which further reduces the amount of lead you have to put in weight pockets or on a belt. It's an efficient solution.

For travel, you are looking for something which packs into a small space, and doesn't weigh too much. Surprisingly, a backplate and wing setup can actually weigh no more (or even a bit less) than a jacket BC. (We tried this -- weighed our singles backplate setups and compared them to my husband's SeaQuest Balance back-inflate BC. There was about a half pound difference.) Backplate rigs can be disassembled, so that the plate and harness can be packed one place and the wing another, which can be nice. Deflated wings are flat, too. It's also nice not to have any padding, because a simple harness dries overnight, which reduces your weight problems coming home with damp gear.

But for extensive tropical travel, especially on the little airlines that get huffy about every kilo, one of the soft backplates, like the one Oxycheq makes, might be a great choice. I have never used one, although I've thought about it. I like the stability of the tank with a rigid plate, and for travel, I have a second backplate made of Kydex, so it's very light.

But the bottom line is that the priorities change between cold and warm water diving, and with travel; it can be difficult to find a single piece of equipment which is optimal for all of those situations. It would be my guess that most folks who are avid local divers in a cold water environment, AND who travel a lot for diving, will end up with two different BCs for the two applications.