beached whales got bent avoiding sonar

[archman]

Oh! If it's late 1990's then it falls under the LOFAR research study. I'll find it and post some links.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

With little or no air in their lungs, there's nothing to compress. Therefore, there is no increased partial pressure. Therefore there is no nitrogen dissolution. Therefore there can be no nitrogen coming out of solution. Therefore there is no DCS or arterial gas embolism.

Little air, maybe...but they definitely have some air in their lungs. There seems to be a lot of thinking lately that suggests whales do suffer from long term damage from DCS type effects of Nitrogen bubbles. The link below mentions a study on really old bones from well before the use of sonar that showed the same pitting from bubbles that scientists are finding now. The older the whale, the more severe the damage.

Check out this link..it's interesting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4122119.stm

Here's a clip:

They noticed that many of the bones contained lesions and pits, indicating the whales may have suffered mild, but chronic, decompression sickness over the course of their lives.

Anyway, sonar aside, I think it's becoming increasingly apparent to science that whales are, in fact, susceptible to DCS-like symptoms caused by dissolved nitrogen in blood and tissues.

Cheers

 

[archman]

Well, I’ve done some hunting. Everything I’ve found keep leading back to the multi-species Bahamian stranding event in March 2000. No pilot whales, however. This is the most exhaustively studied stranding event ever undertaken, and it’s also the report most often misquoted and misinterpreted by the media and various NGO’s. That’s due to the report’s findings lending credence to a tactical sonar exercise as the most logical culprit. The fruitcake media clung to that bit like a golden talisman, and have been weaving tall tales about it ever since.

But for those that actually read the details, there were a great many extenuating circumstances. Most environmentalists don’t really understand sonar, or marine mammals, for that matter. But NOAA and their scientists do.

The full blown joint Navy-NOAA report can be viewed here.
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/prot_res/overview/Interim_Bahamas_Report.pdf

And there’s also a extensive public comment and response section regarding it and other cetacean strandings that starts on p. 46724 of the 2002 NOAA ruling on LOFAR sonar. The questions asked are very good.
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/prot_res/readingrm/MMSURTASS/lfasonar_fr02.pdf

 

[Rickg]

What I recall is that the incident occured immediately after a test of that big-asss low frequency sonar. The test involved several ships and I don't remember the location but it might have been the Bahama's. If memory serves *no* whales were spotted in the entire region for a period of weeks or possibly months after the incident, leading to speculation that they had fled and the Navy admitted it might have had something to do with the sonar because a number (maybe all) of the whales were bleeding from their eyes and had serious internal trauma, possibly to the ears (or whatever it is that whales have). I think it was in 1999 but it might have been earlier. Try 1998-2001.

Is that enough to go on?

R..

Diver0001,

1. I believe this is the article that you are describing that occurred in 2000.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/biology/2001-12-21-beached-whale.htm

2. Here is a link to a an interim report on the stranding. I imagine the final report might also be available online.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/overview/Interim_Bahamas_Report.pdf

2. And if by "that big-asss low frequency sonar" you are referring to is the Navy's LFA system it was physically impossible for that system to have been involved because the ship was in the Pacific Ocean when this incident occurred and has been continually in the Pacific Ocean since some time in '97 if I remember right.

Rickg

 

[Diver0001]

OK, I'll take the time to read some of this stuff and get back to you.

R..

 

[MALTA_DIVER]

OK this is getting good!!
I think that the cause of the stranding caused by sonar is still up in the air?
however,
I still not convinced that whales/marine mammals can get bent. Have we looked in to Sea Lions, Orcas(I HATE these guys!!) for clues of the bends? What about Emperor penguins also extreme free divers?
I also remember watching Orcas in Antarctica exhaling before they dive. So would that reduce the amount of nitrogen in the blood for later expansion in the tissues.
I know that whales can live for a very long time!! We are are not sure how long in fact. I know some Pacific Northern Right whales have been found with very old harpoon heads in them. IF I remember right some have been found with stone points in them (National Geographic) Could this pitting of bones just be old age? Gout can do the same thing. Have diving whale bones been compared to whales that don't dive deep(baleen whales)
I'm VERY interested in these threads and would love to learn more about Marine Mammals
Malta_Diver

 

[Jai Bar]

OK this is getting good!!
Could this pitting of bones just be old age? Gout can do the same thing.

I suppose that whales suffer from old age just like any other animal on the planet. Whatever causes bone damage in humans may also cause similar effects on other animal's bones.

 

[JonAustin]

Thanks, archman and Humu(etc.)--I stand corrected. I'd be very interested to know the process by which they get DCS/embolisms, since they do have so little air available to cause it.

I did have to laugh at this part of the article referenced by archman:

"Their inventory included whales from the Pacific and Atlantic, and whales that died as long as 111 years ago—so the newly found phenomenon is neither localized nor recent.

The scientists theorize that the whales normally manage their surfacing behavior to decompression problems. ... But if a noxious sound—from a sonar, for instance, or seismic airguns used in oil exploration—disrupts their usual behavior and provokes fast surfacing, the whales risk acute problems from nitrogen emboli."

If whales had DCS/embolism symptoms over a century ago, and sonar is only about 60 years old, it seems like a bit of a leap to say that sonar is causing DCS/emboli. Now ear damage, I could totally understand.

 

[Santa]

Dang pilot whales...

Pilot whale. Stupid name for a creature that fails to steer clear of entire continents.

 

[JonAustin]

Perhaps the name was intended to be ironic?