Blinded signs

[pickens_46929]

Touch communication is common among cave divers. Check out the archives here on scuba board... http://www.scubaboard.com/archive/index.php/t-4190.html

There's also Joe Prosser's book on Cave Diving Communication which is a good reference at least... http://www.scubadivingbooks.com/cavediving/cavedivingcomms.htm

 

[markfm]

So how do you go about communicating in a non-visual way you have another mask on the boat?

El Thumbola
As a good buddy I dive close, so if my mask magically dematerializes I can reach them. Point at my face and, unless they're truly spaced they should notice something is missing. Thumb the dive to go up. My buddy would normally control the ascent, but as I noted earlier it is indeed possible for me to read my gauges, holding them close. Once we're up I can get the spare.
(actually, my regular buddy already knows what spare gear I have)

 

[GBIT]

Personally' i have a honker that connects in between my QD hose and my inflator. it is basicly a underwater air wistle. it is called a hammerhead.

P.S. it also works on the surface up to a mile on a clear day

 

[piikki]

For rec diver, I could see several signs kind of handy to know when one or both get blindsighted. These come to mind as easy starters people might have something useful for…

1. Wait (I’ll need to fetch something, get us ready for something)

2. Stay still (as in not wait but don’t move because I am trying to fix at least part of the problem before we ascent etc)

3. Let go (of the boulder already- we are going up, off me I can’t control the ascent for both of us if you bearhug me)

4. We need to get you out of your gear (eg I can’t get you off the fishnet otherwise)

5. I am hurt/You are hurt (like less than not-OK, we need to hurry kinda bad stuff, the blind one isn’t going to see my jaw’s fractured even if it’s quite obvious to me or might not know their bits are hanging)

6. Amber alert - I am pretty much at the verge of panicking and cannot take any extra loading right now, so let’s hit the road before it’s too late (so don’t go looking for my mask and leaving me alone or trying anything extra or it’s gonna hit the fa)

7. I will lead


Taps and squeezes – is there any consensus about numbers whatever else they are related to? (e.g. 2 is always something ‘OKish’ or more than 4 is always baaad)

Thanks for any suggestions

 

[scubafool]

In my opinion, the more stressed the situation, the less complex & the more practiced signals and the responses to them need to be. Grab hold of a leg or arm & shove hard means "GO", squeeze means "STOP/HOLD". These might be useful for general situations, specific situations might need different ones, but they should be simple & you should practice them a lot.

 

[dlndavid]

El Thumbola
As a good buddy I dive close, so if my mask magically dematerializes I can reach them. Point at my face and, unless they're truly spaced they should notice something is missing. Thumb the dive to go up. My buddy would normally control the ascent, but as I noted earlier it is indeed possible for me to read my gauges, holding them close. Once we're up I can get the spare.
(actually, my regular buddy already knows what spare gear I have)

OK, now close your eyes, you see nothing. How do you communucate?

 

[WaterDawg]

Loosing a mask is far from zero viz. W/ practice you can be just as comfortarble, for a period of time. and youll still see a big person shaped blob (your bud) and some can see their SPG more or less. I dont carry a spare mask, but I bet that if I sccotered I would.

Pickens is right Cave divers do it an that book is good. Just cause your never goona cave dive dosent mean you cant pick up a thing or two from those crazy guys. Wasent the BC invented by cave divers?

I know that in Intro class one of the things you have to do is exit the cave sharing aair w/ no viz. A cave w/ lights off IS zero viz, heck it would be -12 viz if such thing excisted!

 

[piikki]

I definitely didn’t mean this thread to be about losing masks only – it is just a regular example of reduced viz, for some of us more because even having to swap to non-Rx mask puts us in a bit of a blur. Also, I am not only thinking of maneuvering out of poor viz per se or just getting out of water but situations were one might be caught in an akward position for awhile - maybe with the mask dislodged too or maybe so that you just can not establish eye-contact. If you cannot see, you cannot see light communications either.

Example, you hit the fishnet, struggle your mask off and totally entangle yourself in the net while looking for your knife, meanwhile sinking to bottom and silting the site. Your buddy is trying to tell you to 1. stop struggling, 2. stop waving the knife/give it away so s/he can approach 3. wait a bit for the silt to the settle (maybe even somehow give a calming code that both have plenty of air left if the victim can’t read caught gauges), and 4. take a hold off something (offered), so buddy can work on the problem (5. take the lead). Very generic signs can be created to mean different things (I lead can mean I work on this, I do it first-you second, I pick’em up etc). During this it might still be needed to signal that it’s not working and 5. we need to get rid off your scuba unit to free you to be able to immediately ascent.

Notice at this point I am thinking of the situation as non-panicky, gear salvaging and controlled. Being able to communicate fosters that IMHO. If it at any point changes because one is physically hurt (got from that knife) or about to panic, and can warn about it rather than all of a sudden just go frantic or limp it would be great. So, I’d either have one sign for ‘emergency abort all other efforts, we need to surface immediately’ or more sophisticated like ‘hurt’ or ‘about to panic’ which gives more info. If my buddy ever signals me ‘near panic’ instead of just ‘spooked/scared’ I know it’s code blue because she is not panicky type, and we have agreed which signs are not used lightly. Low on air is easy if you have access to chest. Fist on chest can be felt very easily. I’d use versions of regular ‘visual’ signs pressed on available and appropriate body as a first choice as much as possible because you don’t need to relearn those. (Like the line entanglement one mentioned in the posts referred).

I understand what you’re saying about keeping it simple. I’d not bother to learn these signs but with my regular mate with whom I am comfortable trying to solve problems the-long-method, and even continue a dive after problematic situations if we so agree. Life-threatening and air-depleting things aside, there are situations that often last a couple of minutes and don’t need to mean immediate abort. Less hassle if you are able to utilize the help/help better. I just chose the example above, so I could mush in about all the signs I’d plopped into my previous mail.

Thanks for the book reference. Will have to try to take a peek at that somewhere. Maybe guys in St Lawrence shops will have those since locals for sure won’t.

 

[do it easy]

I actually dive with blind divers- I'm an HSA buddy. We cheat and use full face masks with 2 way radios. I can tell him to swim to 10 o'clock, describe what's around or what he's feeling, ask him how he's doing etc. We do have back up signals in case the radios don't work or we have to bail on the FFM and switch to our backup masks (not on the boat).

The hand signals are mainly about pressure and depth, which are the more important ones. If I were hopelessly entangled, it would be tough for my blind buddy to realize this and cut me out without the FFM's, in which case, I would rely on the other able-bodied buddy to assist.

In terms of the entanglement, by the time you get your mask off and entangled, you've gone too far. I would expect my buddy will realize that I'm missing, look for me, and then assist me. I have no signal for that- I just expect my buddy to do it.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

We do a zero visibility exercise with our students at the end of the class, their masks are covered with aluminum foil so they cannot see and we advise them to just close their eyes because tends to be easier to cope with not being able to see if your eyes are closed. They hold hands at all times, hand signals are communicated much like Helen Keller did. Ok/up/down/squeeze/etc. is done in your buddy's hand, it's easy to make the sign then have your buddy feel what it is. Is it graceful? Not really and it almost always takes two hands for the students to signal and keep hold of their buddy at the same time but we aren't using the experience to learn to dive in zero vis we are teaching them that even though they can't see they can still safely exit a zero vis area. They learn to communicate out-of-air as well and go through a very simple OOA scenario in the shallow end with us closely monitoring their progress. OOA is not easy to do without being able to see, we have the OOA diver make the signal with their buddy's hand (I take your hand and make slashing motion across my throat with it). There are some pretty hilarious results on the first try sometimes but in the end everyone gets it. This also reinforces why we exchange the regulators the way we do (give with right, receive with left), it helps make sure you get the regulator and it is right side up when you put it in your mouth. Once they have satisfactorily managed an OOA drill it's time for a treasure hunt. The buddy pairs must find and collect 4 metal objects that we throw in the deep end. They must come up with their own way to communicate when they find one and be able to tell each other how many they have and when it is time to ascend. Once they have found all the objects they have to ascend no faster than 30fpm. Your ears will tell you how fast you are ascending and the students usually end up going much slower than 30fpm. Just for fun we tell them to navigate to the NW corner of the pool :biggrin: We did have one team successfully do this. They happened to know which corner they needed to get to and they followed the wall and counted how many turns they made until they reached the intended corner--we were impressed

Ber :lilbunny: