Bride-to-be dies in Micronesia diving trip

[Divedoggie]

This better not happen on my trip to Truk this coming week, especially to my girlfriend, who I am planning to propose to while on the trip!! :11:

Congrats! (I hope) I also hope she doesn't read this and figure out what you're up to!
Best of luck!

 

[PacketSniffer]

thanks for the clarification, in fact i based my statement trying to correlate it with TDI standards; for CCR however, i have no idea what they used but guessed it would comply with this. maybe they are upper tier divers.
anyway it is a very sad incident.
FYI; he's in a very "good" shape
i'm about to take off from the country however, to SA

That is typically for Normoxic Trimix. One can obtain Hypoxic Trimix training and be good for ~330fsw. Past that, a diver can go through Expedition training and be good to whatever they deem since they are knowledgable enough to plan for just about anything.

Even though I personally had a lot of fun in and around Doha (and the region), the best part about living in Doha is leaving it. Have fun in SA.

 

[maged_mmh]

Even though I personally had a lot of fun in and around Doha (and the region), the best part about living in Doha is leaving it. Have fun in SA.

thanks!
BTW; latif from pearl divers sends his regards
p.s. SA= south africa; just in case you figured it is KSA:no

 

[ucfdiver]

how did they even think about going that deep?
very sad indeed, thoughts with the family

Please research what you're discussing before criticizing a diver, especially when the subject is deceased and cannot defend themselves.

 

[String]

Is it common for DCS to hit divers who dive within their limits/tables and follow the necessary precautions?

Common? No
Does it happen sometimes? Yes

 

[maged_mmh]

Please research what you're discussing before criticizing a diver, especially when the subject is deceased and cannot defend themselves.

just in case; apparently you haven't been through all the posts!

Jeff Keep's account of the incident is at rebreatherworld: A report of the loss of Jayne Bloom - Rebreather World

He said it was a normal rebreather (meg) tech dive. Normal ascent, no skipped deco (correct GF30/85), no problems/stress/current, no faults with equipment, got on boat thinking all was fine, then lost sight and it was downhill from there...

going "that deep" with proper gear and training is NOT reckless. more dangerous than rec diving, maybe, but not reckless. i have dived to 150 feet, stayed within the NDL limits of my computer, did multiple safety stops (decompression) on the way up, and have been fine. I could do the same thing 100 times more and be fine, and with varying conditions the 101'st time may be a hit. all sports like diving are a roll of the dice. we simply choose the risk level we are willing to accept. if one believes otherwise they are still rolling the dice, but they are naive.

even with the risk you're willing to accept; what they did just 4 meters away from the tec limit of 60mt.
i would consider this pushing the limits

tec limit of 60m?? using hypoxic mixes tec divers are hitting 90m. it is all a matter of training, and we don't know her's.

Wow, we lose another adventurer. So sad. Like the thread "If I die while diving" says, incidents cause us to examine more closely our scuba world. This poor woman's death has caused me to examine a little closer the pressures and forces on our bodies while diving.

Here's a three page online article that directly describes the "dive response" effects of pressure at depth on the human body. It may be common knowledge to many, but it did a nice job of describing the compression effects of pressure.

PBS - Scientific American Frontiers:SuperPeople:Weight of Water

The problem is that we really don't feel any different as we descend due to the dive response. Sure, we feel the spaces in our sinuses and ears contract, and there's the narcosis and toxicity effects of gases on our mental and physiological functions, but for the most part we're unaware of the pressure or the resulting force on our bodies.

I know that Pressure (PSI) = Force (lbs)/Area (square inches). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here are some calculations of the total force in lbs on our bodies while diving.

The average adult female has a surface area of 1.6 square meters or 2480 square inches. The average adult male has a surface area of 1.9 square meters or 2945 square inches.

At 10 meters or 33 feet, the total pressure on one square inch of the body is 28.92 pounds/square inch. That means there's a total compression force of 28.92 pounds x 2480 square inches on a woman, or 71,721.6 lbs; and 28.92 pounds x 2945 square inches on a man, or 85,169.4 lbs.

At 20 meters (43.14 psi) the force is 106,987.2 lbs and 127,047.3 lbs respectively.
At 30 meters (57.37 psi) the force is 142,277.6 lbs and 168,954.7 lbs respectively.
At 40 meters (71.59 psi) the force is 177,543.2 lbs and 210,832.6 lbs respectively.
At 50 meters (85.81 psi) the force is 212,808.8 lbs and 252,710.5 lbs respectively.
At 60 meters (100.04 psi) the force is 248,099.2 lbs and 294,617.8 lbs respectively.

When put in terms of pounds of force, the compression effects at depth become a little more attention getting. And hopefully gives one a better appreciation of the source of possible consequences, especially on the heart and lungs. If Jayne's spirit and her friends are reading this, the price was too high for what I learned from her passing. It's a lesson I would have rather learned by opening a book instead of a reading a thread on her death.

While still pure speculation, a PFO would be suspected I would think in many 'undeserved' hits. Recall that tables, etc...are based upon mostly theoretical knowledge of how our physiology reacts to inert gas loading. The limits they show cover the vast majority of people, but not surely not everyone and not even the same person on a given day. As much as we understand about bubble physics and physiology, there are still an enormous number of variables each of us contain.

To be clear this was NOT a recreational dive -- both depth, breathing gas, and equipment all put this into a 'technical' dive category. For those who dive within the recreational dive parameters, this should be a reminder that diving, even within the individual's training level, is not risk free. Dive within your training, equipment, and comfort level and generally you will be fine...but as with life, there are no guarantees.

I hate to burst your bubble but this was not pushing the limits at all when taking their training and gear into consideration. Most of the rebreathers out there today are quite capable of dives easily down to 600 feet. They were quite clearly trained for those dives as well.

I was just down to 270ffw, in a cave, just a few weeks ago and am still here to post this. I have done that particular cave dive several times now along with many others. Was down to 240fsw in the Dry Tortugas recently as well on a wreck diving trip with many other divers. So, again, with proper training and gear, it *can* be done safely to those depths. When making statements, please be knowledgable on the topic before posting. Others are reading your statements that are even less knowledgable and your statements are repeated and it goes on. Knowledge is key.

thanks for the clarification, in fact i based my statement trying to correlate it with TDI standards; for CCR however, i have no idea what they used but guessed it would comply with this. maybe they are upper tier divers.
anyway it is a very sad incident.

That is typically for Normoxic Trimix. One can obtain Hypoxic Trimix training and be good for ~330fsw. Past that, a diver can go through Expedition training and be good to whatever they deem since they are knowledgable enough to plan for just about anything.

 

[Wayan]

Sad news indeed.

Is it common for DCS to hit divers who dive within their limits/tables and follow the necessary precautions?

I would say common but I do see a reasonably number of divers whose profile is completely innocuous that do get hits.

 

[DandyDon]

I would say common but I do see a reasonably number of divers whose profile is completely innocuous that do get hits.

Perhaps you misread? Hits are uncommon, right?

 

[*Floater*]

Perhaps you misread? Hits are uncommon, right?

Undeserved hits that paralyze or kill are very unusual - some divers believe they are likelier to occur for people with a PFO (a common heart condition that's generally not considered dangerous and therefore people are not tested or treated for it).

That said, minor hits are probably more common than most divers think. I'm talking here of unusual tiredness or fatigue, or minor skin bends that divers may confuse for a rash or sunburn. I'm pretty sure I suffered the former after a tech dive in the Philippines. I kept nodding off while waiting for my lunch post-dive in a way that felt really unusual in hindsight. But nothing bad happened beyond that - I had a few cups of coffee, did a second tech dive and felt fine...

 

[mrlipis]

Here's a three page online article that directly describes the "dive response" effects of pressure at depth on the human body. It may be common knowledge to many, but it did a nice job of describing the compression effects of pressure.

PBS - Scientific American Frontiers:SuperPeople:Weight of Water

Mmmm, correct me if I am wrong but this article is based on free divers holding their breath. Our bodies are made up of mostly water, and water for all intensive purpose, does not compress. I don't think that report is going to apply to scuba, especially rec diving.

Bruce