btwn dives, do you leave your camera latched up in its housing?

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silicone grease is there to reduce friction of the housing in relation to the seal. As you go deeper, the crushing pressure will put both sides of the housing and the seal in (inperceptible) motion, if their surfaces get caught, by too much friction, they will tear at the weakest of the three, the seal.
Not on any housing I have ever owned.
closing the housing results in physical door to housing contact. The door can not close any more. Even under pressure. This is standard design principle. The two surfaces mate as evenly as possible.

Niether the door nor the housing move "under pressure" experienced during a dive. They are already under tension from the latching device.

---------- Post added January 24th, 2014 at 10:29 PM ----------

And I open my current housing after every dive to swap camera battery as it is a P&S with optical strobe link. In the process of modifying the housing to use a wired sync connection to strobes.

Never had any issues with my excessive opening. Basically I rinse the housing before (so no sand issues) and never screw with the o ring (so no hairs on it). I do grease the oring every 50 dives or so...
 
I take the camera tray/back out of the house to DL pics every day or else the card would get too full after not too many days.
I also DO open the housing between dives to change lenses and lens ports where thats neccesary. I dont go in shark hunting with a 100mm macro and I dont go looking for nudis with a wideangle.
When I do this though I first of all make sure IM dry, then I make sure the housing is dry and finally I make sure the area I do this is dry. I dont sit on the bow in the splash opening my DSLR housing :shocked:
 
Very useful discussion - I'm a newbie and I was wondering how to do all that.

Where do you put your camera between 2 consecutive dives? Do you just leave it in the rinse tank,...?
 
Very useful discussion - I'm a newbie and I was wondering how to do all that.

Where do you put your camera between 2 consecutive dives? Do you just leave it in the rinse tank,...?
I used to with my compact, not so much an option with a DSLR with trays and arms and strobes and a LOT more bulk to the housing itself, not to mention the price of it.. I usually put it in my gear box or make sure its properly dried off and store it in a safe location in the dry area (where there are such).
This is regardless of wether or not I need to change lenses and ports..
 
Not on any housing I have ever owned.
closing the housing results in physical door to housing contact. The door can not close any more. Even under pressure. This is standard design principle. The two surfaces mate as evenly as possible.

Niether the door nor the housing move "under pressure" experienced during a dive. They are already under tension from the latching device.


I agree with you that the when the housing is closed you want the the door to touch the housing in a metal-to-metal contact, but I have yet to see a housing that actually does this. I don't know what you own, but on my Aquatica housings the latches that hold the back door closed are set by the factory to apply about 50lbs of clamping force. Given the size of the o-ring they use, this is nowhere near enough force to cause the back plate to touch the housing to form a metal-to-metal contact. In fact, every housing that I have ever looked at uses an o-ring that is seriously under-compressed at the surface and relies on the increasing water pressure to improve the seal at depth. To check this hypothesis, I measured my 5D Aquatica o-ring groove and compared it to the Parker catalog o-ring design guides. Here is what I found.

My 5D housing uses a standard 1/8" ring. The terminology is unfortunate because a 1/8" o-ring has an actual thickness of 0.139 +-0.004. The guidelines specify that the groove should be between 0.101 and 0.107 deep, which would give a compression ratio of 20% to 30%. The width for a standard o-ring should be 0.177 and 0.187 to give room for the o-ring to expand laterally when compressed.
The groove in the housing measures 0.100 deep and 0.136 wide. The depth conforms to the standard depth assuming enough clamping force to compress the two halves until they touch. However the cam latches do not provide enough force to do this. When closed, there is a gap of 0.032 so that the o-ring compression is only 0.008 or 5.7% which is seriously under-compressed.

The good thing is that I have the Backscatter vaccum system on my housing, which I love. When I pump it down to -10inHg (-4.9psi) before the dive it increases the clamping pressure on the door to roughly 250lbs, and the the back plate does touch the housing as it should. Needless to say I think that vacuum systems are great and will become standard on all high end housings.

To answer the original poster's question, I usually close the housing in the morning and open it at night. I also rarely take out the o-rings. They are more likely to fail if you stretch them unnecessarily. I never leave my housing in the rinse tank between dives as it is way too likely to play bumper-cars with other cameras. Use the rinse tank to rinse, and then put the camera on the camera table (or deck) with a towel to keep it out of the sun.

Also, the OP asked about a hypothetical scenario of two cameras, one that is never opened, and one that is opened and serviced after every dive. I would bet on the first scenario. O-rings are very reliable. If you follow the Parker catalog design guides, o-rings are good to 3000psi for years. The pressures involved in diving are trivial compared to this.
 
I agree with you that the when the housing is closed you want the the door to touch the housing in a metal-to-metal contact, but I have yet to see a housing that actually does this. I don't know what you own, but on my Aquatica housings..
Must be that cheap Canadian stuff?
My first housings were finely handcrafted Amphibico video housings featuring double o-rings proudly made in the good old ... uhh, never mind...

Along with the Amphibicos I have several sea & sea housings and a canon and they all touch. Maybe my o-rings are crap and extrude too much?

I have no idea how to measure the clamping force or the force when underwater. Can you provide some pointers for further education? i am in the process of doing a mod to my P&S housing to provide wired strobe connection and have concerns about stress points and general strength. One mod will involve a simple hole drilling and sealing. not too worried about that. But another idea will involve extending the housing since there is not enough internal clearance.

Earlier in my career I was placing electronics on the outside of trucks and spent a large amount of time trying to keep things dry. This included research into waterproof housings which involved lots of learning about seals. We finally gave up and just potted every thing. We learned that anything that was economical to use and that could be opened to service the electronics, just got filled with water by the pressure washers used to clean the trucks. Who knew? You need special design to keep the high pressure water from invading the enclosures. Tough to do economically in very low volumes.

AND I fully agree about leaving the orings alone. Biggest cause of flooding is too much fiddling.
 
If you are interested, the Parker o-ring catalog is a font of information (http://www.parker.com/literature/ORD 5700 Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf). In section 2.4.6, they have tables that show how much clamping force you need to compress an o-ring. For the 1/8" oring that Aquatica uses, a durometer 60 o-ring with 20% compression takes between 2 and 20 lbs per linear inch with 5lbs being nominal. Therefore you can estimate the clamping force by multiplying by the linear length of the o-ring. I haven't measured my o-ring, but it is around 20 inches, which means that in theory it takes 40-400lbs to fully compress it with 100lbs being nominal.

As far as how much the clamping force changes with depth, that is easy. Simply multiply the pressure difference by the cross sectional area of the back plate. For example at 33ft, you are at 2atm and the inside is 1atm, so the difference is 1atm (14.7lbs/in^2). The back plate is roughly 25in^2 so at 33ft you get an extra 375 lbs of clamping force on top of what is being provided by the clamps.
 
Please keep in mind, whatever is written in the o-ring manufacturers catalogues or ISO/DIN/JIS or whatever standard you want to look at, those are recommended values, for all sorts of applications and all sorts of conditions. 5.7% might be way lower than the recommended value, however, that does not have to mean it will be leaking in this particular application. In theory, as soon as you have compression along the whole circumference, you have a seal. For anything to slip by, it has to overcome that "compression pressure". Now, if you add pressure from one side, the rubber will actually press against the sealing surfaces with a higher pressure, too, which is the "compression pressure" plus the equal amount of pressure added from the side, so in sum the o-ring will always keep pressing against the sealing surface with a higher pressure than it is exposed to (as long as it stays intact, of course).

In other words, if you go deeper, yes, the o-ring will be pushing against the sealing surfaces with a higher pressure, but it also has to withstand and equally higher pressure from the outside. But the difference will stay the same.

But if I had the choice, I'd go with a design that has 20% compression than with one that has 5%. There are reasons why 20-30% are recommended. By the way, depending on which standard you look at, those values vary. In fact, in the latest ISO (3601 if you want to know more), the recommended range varies by cross section, though if I remember correctly it's always above 10% for static applications.

In the end, it's the field testing that determines if it's sealing properly or not. Sadly, sometimes the customer is the guinea pig.

[...]
My 5D housing uses a standard 1/8" ring. The terminology is unfortunate because a 1/8" o-ring has an actual thickness of 0.139 +-0.004. The guidelines specify that the groove should be between 0.101 and 0.107 deep, which would give a compression ratio of 20% to 30%. The width for a standard o-ring should be 0.177 and 0.187 to give room for the o-ring to expand laterally when compressed.
The groove in the housing measures 0.100 deep and 0.136 wide. The depth conforms to the standard depth assuming enough clamping force to compress the two halves until they touch. However the cam latches do not provide enough force to do this. When closed, there is a gap of 0.032 so that the o-ring compression is only 0.008 or 5.7% which is seriously under-compressed.
[...]

Do I read this right, your findings are that the groove width of your housing is actually narrower than the thickness of your o-ring?
And if you were to close your housing so the housing parts touch, which you say it does when you vacuum your housing, the groove height will be reduced to 0.100?

That sounds too small. Rubber is incompressible, so when you squeeze it from 0.139 down to 0.100, that rubber has to move somewhere. That's why you should have a wider groove. Granted, it will change it's shape to look more like the groove, so going from circle to square cross section will help, but it feels like something is off. A closed groove with 0.1 height and 0.136 width won't fit an o-ring with 0.139 cross section diameter. Unless I understood you wrong?

And P.S.: Both my housings (Canon) use a radial seal design, so, the force which both parts of the housings are pressed together with won't change the compression ratio of the o-ring.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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