Buddy awareness 101

[Spectre]

Ill play the devils advocate and say that I thing and see a lot of experienced guys getting so far away from eachother they might as well not have a buddy. You can talk up your skills till you are blue in the face and you will never convince me that being that far from your buddy is a positive.

I don't mean to put you on the defensive. I'm just stating. Just because those divers are experienced doesn't mean they have decent, or any, buddy awareness. All I'm stating is read those references to see what people mean by buddy awareness, as they are concepts that may help you be more comfortable in the water.

 

[TyTy]

I don't mean to put you on the defensive. I'm just stating. Just because those divers are experienced doesn't mean they have decent, or any, buddy awareness. All I'm stating is read those references to see what people mean by buddy awareness, as they are concepts that may help you be more comfortable in the water.

Good deal, Im getting on a soap box a little and restating my point, Im bad about that, sorry

 

[boomx5]

Thats your opinion. I will never cave dive, never get comfortable in these extreme situations nore will my GF. I am in real estate and will most likely go on somewhere between 0-20 dives a year for a while. Maybe it is a sign of weakness, maybe what I need is to dedicate more of my life to increasing my diving skills but that just is never going to happen (not until I retire at least!).

Doing 200 dives a year is not going to help if you don't have the proper foundation. Jeff is trying to be helpful here but you are listening to what he is saying. If you want to increase your skill, get some proper training.

 

[TyTy]

I don't mean to put you on the defensive. I'm just stating. Just because those divers are experienced doesn't mean they have decent, or any, buddy awareness. All I'm stating is read those references to see what people mean by buddy awareness, as they are concepts that may help you be more comfortable in the water.

I read that thread, I see what you are saying I think. If what you are saying is that holding hands is a crutch for an inability to maintain perfect position (staying in your buddies perifial vision) then I agree. Neither of us are perfectly able to locate (we will swim a littel past, float up or down a little on a breath). We are unable to stay perfectly beside eachother 100% of the time wihtout hand holding. Im pretty sure that just comes iwth lots of practice, that is somehting we dont have a whole ton of ($, time, jobs, etc... get in the way).

But in that thread they talk about using lights, staying in vision or kicking distance. What if your buddy stopped briefly to reach back and figure out what his tank is caught on, you get two or three kicks ahead, realize he isnt there and turn around only to see your buddy in full on panic and you now have to turn around and have 2 or 3 kicks to get back over to them. Those are the scenarios that make me want to maintain full contact at all tiems.

 

[boomx5]

But in that thread they talk about using lights, staying in vision or kicking distance. What if your buddy stopped briefly to reach back and figure out what his tank is caught on, you get two or three kicks ahead, realize he isnt there and turn around only to see your buddy in full on panic and you now have to turn around and have 2 or 3 kicks to get back over to them. Those are the scenarios that make me want to maintain full contact at all tiems.

Lights are a great way to keep contact. If you decide to invest in a couple for you and your GF, I think you'll be suprised at how much they help. Also, this need to be in touch contact (or extreme close contact) will change once you get a bit more comfortable in the water.

 

[TyTy]

Doing 200 dives a year is not going to help if you don't have the proper foundation. Jeff is trying to be helpful here but you are listening to what he is saying. If you want to increase your skill, get some proper training.

Im listening (I only read one page of that 15 page thread so if what I am missing is in the other 14 direct me to it cause I dont feel like reading all of that )

I just have never heard anyone give me a logical reason for why holding hands is a crutch other than to say it is a cruthc and that if I had proper buddy awareness it would not be needed. In a perfect world I agree totally but in life nothing is perfect and there is always that one thing that goes wrong, why not have a buddy a squeeze away versus a flash of a light to get theirr attention.

For example, in rockcrawling wiht jeeps, buggies, etc... you flip the vehicles over a lot. 99.9% of the time it is preventable by doing one thing or the other, turning your tires in a split second and giving some throttle usually will prevent flipping over but yet it happens all the time. That is because you only have an instant to react and a lot of the time you dont react properly. Now if someone tells me a rollcage is a crutch for not having the ability to steer and gas out of a roll that dosent mean I am confident enough in my ability as a driver to take the rollcage off my buggy, that rollcage is added protectiona nd a gaurantee that if I do flip it will be right there waiting to protect my noggin.

Basically skill does not replace safety redundancy in any extreme situation. Same thing with a gun is always loaded, never point it at someone period.

Never even allow the possibility of being too far from your buddy, always keep them right there no matter what.

 

[TyTy]

Also, this need to be in touch contact (or extreme close contact) will change once you get a bit more comfortable in the water.

Maybe, I dont think either of us are uncomfortable in the water at all and maybe it was how I was raised with redundant safety checks on dangerous activity. I just dont see a reason to put distance between my GF and I.

I guess what I am asking is why would I WANT to increase the distance I am from her? I dont see the positive side of it, only possible negatives.

 

[MichaelBaranows]

I don't see anything wrong with you holding hands with your girlfriend. My only question would have to be is about the future. I am sure that some day you will be diving with another buddy and do you think they will want to hold hands with you for the whole dive. I have dove with several people that what I call rookies and have not held hands with any of them. I did make a dive one time that the vis. was really bad and my buddy held on to my tank but we ended up calling the dive cause we could see anything.

I am sure that I dive different than just about everyone on this board. But most of the time my buddy is always 15'+ away from me. I have started spearfishing and we watch out for each other but we both still need to be pretty much incontrol of our dive. The buddy is there if things get bad cut you out of line, help handling big fish, or air if needed. But the plan is not to cut the line that close to where you will need to share air.

 

[cummings66]

Maybe, I dont think either of us are uncomfortable in the water at all and maybe it was how I was raised with redundant safety checks on dangerous

You actually admitted you were uncomfortable in the water when you worried about her, if she was ooa or worse. You didn't enjoy that feeling and I understand completely. I believe when you're too worried about somebody else that you use more air and have a lot less fun during the dive. It's stressful!

I like my buddy to be within a distance where they're useful to me, but not so close as to strangle me. I wouldn't enjoy it one bit if I had one hand tied up and couldn't use it to do something if I needed to, not to mention that it's plain uncomfortable that way. I don't see the problem you do when you're not exactly locked in place the entire dive, that's not something you need to have IMO. As long as I can see you without having to roll around or hunt for you way behind me I'm fine. I know where my buddy is by presence, i.e. a quick glance tells me you're there and ok, I don't need to physically grab you. In the waters I dive, if I can see you then I can help you if you go OOA, vis just isn't that great around here. Last weekend I had anywhere from 0 - 10' and I can cross that distance in a heartbeat.

I will say I do not think you're out of line to hold hands, shoot there's even a sign for that. It's whatever you and your buddy like to do and that's all that matters. It sounds to me like you two have it down to an art form with the up and down pressures, tremors, etc. But I do think you're out of line to say that a buddy needs to be there holding your hand or so close that they could be holding your hand. I think a buddy needs to be close enough to help out.

A reason to not hold hands? No good ones come to mind, but I would wonder why I was so nervous that I felt good only when I had physical contact, even though she would be within grasping range anyhow. Again, nothing wrong with it and maybe you're a romantic at heart and that's why you like this.

 

[piikki]

I just dont see a reason to put distance between my GF and I. I guess what I am asking is why would I WANT to increase the distance I am from her? I dont see the positive side of it, only possible negatives.

For the sake of your relationship, I hope you continue liking to hold hands – above or under Then again not everyone is as comfy snuggling up – even with their spouses (?) You know it’s a crutch but so what, bikes have learning wheels. But I have to say, there is at least one definite negative I see. We have resorted to holding hands a couple of times this summer, usually when things get spookee in poor viz e.g. a ‘black hole’ appears right next to, say, jungle of underwater cables, and we need to scoot by/over. For a few minutes we make sure we won’t lose contact and hold on after giving ‘the deer in the headlights’ -look to each other. However, these are exactly the moments when the one holding the float line is most likely to get the line hooked on – in my case twice – fin buckle. My legs are floaty, and it is hard to operate the line when one hand is taken up by buddy. I don’t know if you are fortunate enough to dive without having to drag a float but I cannot see it being a pleasure diving both hands occupied. My trim goes berserk even thinking about it.

I never thought buddy awareness equals proximity issues only, or mainly ability to aid in OOG. (Generally, I try not to concentrate on thinking that I will panic because it will just create a phobia about panicking itself and be limiting.) However, I’d be very interested in hearing concrete ideas about maintaining optimal contact, and avoiding typical pitfalls.

I totally agree with you TyTy, things happen awfully quick, I concentrate on getting something out of my pocket, and in those 5 secs sheet might have started happening on my other flank. I had some bad experience in a group of six, when in one buddy pair someone just kept on showing off his speed. We ended up keeping eye on the slower buddy – and surprise surprise at one point that buddy was lost in the darkness. His buddy didn’t have a clue when DM turned to ask. We had the last sighting of the whole group from above but we’d signed off for an early ascent because of my blasted ear. He had freaked out all alone and was heading out to lake, to opposite direction - at 80 ft when we were supposed to be heading for a safety stop.

The above situation is kind of where this thread was born… how the heck people dump their buddies or do not notice they are struggling. We struggle with staying shoulder to shoulder but we read changes in behaviour and anticipate to some degree what other one is going to do and/or want. But there must be more than mental games – some concrete stuff we could practice/do to make this ‘team’ better??