Cheap Scooters

[Uzbeckin]

I'm testing out a Sea doo Explorer X right now since it's been on sale on several sites for $500. I have to say it is quite capable - more powerful than the GTI you have in the Tahoe Benchmark. BTW... are they ever going to do another Tahoe Benchmark? There are so many models I would like to see. FDOG - If the manufacturers don't send them - can we just ship ours?

In any case the Explorer X was much better than the bladefish - and for $500 - quite capable. Time will tell if the horrible performance record of Sea doo's will claim this one.... but for $500 it is so tempting!

 

[fdog]

...we'd love to have loaned scooters in the test, that is a very generous offer. After we've sent out invitations, we typically publish a "call for scooters", trying to fill the holes from manufacturer non-participation.

The Tahoe Benchmark this year will be July 25-29, and is completely open. The public is strongly invited, and usually the manufacturers allow the public to try out the scooters after they have been used in the tests.

All the best, James

 

[Uzbeckin]

James,

It's not really that big of a deal. Just pack ship... send some return shipping... I wish I had a hot rod to loan you. I only have an interesting low end rec model that might fare decently for the price. (although it would never be anything more than Rec) I would love to see the results. The testers do all the hard work. I'm assuming you do some of the testing there - I love diving ... but that looks like a lot of work trying to perfectly replicate each dive for each scooter to get the most accurate results - and to do that for days on end. My hat is off to you guys for doing something the manufacturers should have done. They release their false claims on their boxes saying things like the bladefish can go 3.75 miles per hour when the only scooter I know of (there could be more but I dont' know of any) that can get close is SS's Magnus and it only claims to get close to 3 mph. (FOR $6350+)

New consumers are constantly trying to compare meaningless stats (bold lies) and figure out what to buy and how it will perform in the water without getting it in the and ending up owning a dud. There is no way for you to know what something will do without trying it... and then you're stuck with it.

Anything I can do to help - I would. To be quite honest - it might seem like a waste of time to run the likes of Sea Doo, bladefish, and the other "Less Than" but I think exactly the opposite. If you really show how slow they are in comparison ... really show how you can waste hundreds of dollars on the "less than" cheaper models... when newer divers could look to buying used pro models instead of making the same mistakes all the time in buying some $200-400 pool toy.

I think if anyone out there has a nice scooter - you should consider doing something for the dive community and loan it for a few weeks to help. I'm sure there are some people out there who could spend a few days catching up on the honey-do list or at least finning it out for a while instead of scootering for the greater good of us all. =-)

 

[danvolker]

James,

It's not really that big of a deal. Just pack ship... send some return shipping... I wish I had a hot rod to loan you. I only have an interesting low end rec model that might fare decently for the price. (although it would never be anything more than Rec) I would love to see the results. The testers do all the hard work. I'm assuming you do some of the testing there - I love diving ... but that looks like a lot of work trying to perfectly replicate each dive for each scooter to get the most accurate results - and to do that for days on end. My hat is off to you guys for doing something the manufacturers should have done. They release their false claims on their boxes saying things like the bladefish can go 3.75 miles per hour when the only scooter I know of (there could be more but I dont' know of any) that can get close is SS's Magnus and it only claims to get close to 3 mph. (FOR $6350+)

New consumers are constantly trying to compare meaningless stats (bold lies) and figure out what to buy and how it will perform in the water without getting it in the and ending up owning a dud. There is no way for you to know what something will do without trying it... and then you're stuck with it.

Anything I can do to help - I would. To be quite honest - it might seem like a waste of time to run the likes of Sea Doo, bladefish, and the other "Less Than" but I think exactly the opposite. If you really show how slow they are in comparison ... really show how you can waste hundreds of dollars on the "less than" cheaper models... when newer divers could look to buying used pro models instead of making the same mistakes all the time in buying some $200-400 pool toy.

I think if anyone out there has a nice scooter - you should consider doing something for the dive community and loan it for a few weeks to help. I'm sure there are some people out there who could spend a few days catching up on the honey-do list or at least finning it out for a while instead of scootering for the greater good of us all. =-)

I am fine with letting visiting divers try my Gavin...Actually, since several of my buddies have Gavins, I can loan out one and use one of my buddies scooters that "live" in my garage ( they keep them in my garage and I can use when desirable).

If you are headed to Palm Beach to dive, and are interested in a scooter, then by all means, let me know. You should have a crotch strap on your BC so you can clip the scooter to the ring--when the scooter has this much power/speed, you want the lines to be pulling you, not your arms.

Also, Halcyon does demo's at the BHB every once in a while, and the Halcyon scooters are pretty nice as well.

 

[Uzbeckin]

Dan,

I'm actually going to head to Florida to visit my parents this year. (I live in Hawaii) I'd love to come by and check out your scooters if I have a little free time! I've got the d-ring on my strap where I connect in my friend's mako. I'm always considering upgrading to a tech scooter.

Just out of curiosity... anyone have the Hollis 160? I know it can go deep but it weighs a ton - and the duration stats on the Oceanic website didn't super impress me... There is a local dealer selling them and they have told me some of their rebreather guys use it for 3-4 hours which I find a little hard to believe unless they're mostly not scootering. Also anyone heard about the hollis 360 mystery model?

 

[danvolker]

Dan,

I'm actually going to head to Florida to visit my parents this year. (I live in Hawaii) I'd love to come by and check out your scooters if I have a little free time! I've got the d-ring on my strap where I connect in my friend's mako. I'm always considering upgrading to a tech scooter.

Just out of curiosity... anyone have the Hollis 160? I know it can go deep but it weighs a ton - and the duration stats on the Oceanic website didn't super impress me... There is a local dealer selling them and they have told me some of their rebreather guys use it for 3-4 hours which I find a little hard to believe unless they're mostly not scootering. Also anyone heard about the hollis 360 mystery model?

Cool. Just let me know a couple of days or a week ahead of time, so I can plan it.

 

[Uzbeckin]

So I was bored and decided to play around with the equation from the tahoe benchmark relating thrust to speed. Interestingly the bladefish 5000 - which says it goes 3.75 MPH would have to have at least 112.5699 pounds of thrust in order to accomplish that feat - mileage may vary depending on drag- but come on! Who in their right mind would believe you're pushing out 113 pounds of thrust out of that suped up pool toy.

 

[Uzbeckin]

For you nerds out there - to even come remotely close to its claims of 3.75 mph you would have to travel at 330 feet per minute - you would have to have X over .00065 to the nth root where 2.08 is n. (or around 113 pounds of thrust)

 

[Baracuda Smile]

Dan,

I'm actually going to head to Florida to visit my parents this year. (I live in Hawaii) I'd love to come by and check out your scooters if I have a little free time! I've got the d-ring on my strap where I connect in my friend's mako. I'm always considering upgrading to a tech scooter.

Just out of curiosity... anyone have the Hollis 160? I know it can go deep but it weighs a ton - and the duration stats on the Oceanic website didn't super impress me... There is a local dealer selling them and they have told me some of their rebreather guys use it for 3-4 hours which I find a little hard to believe unless they're mostly not scootering. Also anyone heard about the hollis 360 mystery model?

I just got my Hollis 160, and have only one dive that had a 45 minute run time, but I did not drain the battery dead, as the tide was coming in and I did not want to walk across the reef with the scooter, and my gear. The varible pitch prop is good for verying contitions. It did not come with its own tow strap. I do dig the lights on the front. It is sligthly positive bouyant so I might add some trim weights, as this will become more of an issue when diving deep. I am also looking to mount camera's and some insturments on the nose, but I will have to manufacture all of these. The H-160 did come with a tank strap that fits over the nose for ease of carrying. It is not as big as some but the power seems to be equal. I hope to attach it to a pack frame so I can get into some remote spots. 5 hours to charge up the battery, and a rated 2 hour run time. I have huge NITROX steel 120 cu/ft tanks that I can get 2 hours of bottom time, I will soon test to see if I can get a 2 hour run time. Okinawa, Japan was the site of the 2nd largest invasion next to D-Day so we are exploring the ocean floor using scooters looking for artifacts.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Dan,

I'm actually going to head to Florida to visit my parents this year. (I live in Hawaii) I'd love to come by and check out your scooters if I have a little free time! I've got the d-ring on my strap where I connect in my friend's mako. I'm always considering upgrading to a tech scooter.

Just out of curiosity... anyone have the Hollis 160? I know it can go deep but it weighs a ton - and the duration stats on the Oceanic website didn't super impress me... There is a local dealer selling them and they have told me some of their rebreather guys use it for 3-4 hours which I find a little hard to believe unless they're mostly not scootering. Also anyone heard about the hollis 360 mystery model?

It's a 6 month old post but if you're still looking, 46 pounds isn't exactly heavy for a tech scooter, but rather is pretty normal.

----

In terms of "cheap" scooters, James is correct in that you get what you pay for.

The lower end for a real live practical DPV for scuba or Tech use is probably an Oceanic Mako weighing 52-56 pounds depending on how you have it weighted. At $2500 new, they don't make much sense given that you can get a refurbuished Sierra for around the same price. On the used market they go for anywhere from $650-$1200 depending on condition and upgrades such as deeper rated nose cones, faster motors (usually 1000 rpm, compared to 650-850 rpm for stock Mako scooters from various eras), and more duable aluminum clutches.

All things considered, for the most bang for the buck on a tight budget (provided the depth limit is not a factor), I'd go with a used Mako - especially over a $500 sea doo type scooter. Even in stock configuration with one of the slowest 650 rpm motors and 18 Ah batteries, it will offer fair performance (140 fpm in doubles) and 60-70 minute burn times at full power.

If upgraded to a 1000 rpm motor, an aluminum clutch, 30 amp Anderson connectors and decent higher draw Powersonic 21 AH batteries, speeds in the 190-200 fpm range with doubles are the norm, which is no surprise as it has the same motor, prop and shroud configuration as a Gavin or SS with comparable burn times to an 18Ah Gavin (60 minutes at full power drawing about 13 amps and around 90 minutes at a prop setting of 6-7 drawing around 8 amps) at about 10 pounds less weight and a lot less money. The tradeoff is the 180'/200' depth rating, a more fragile hull and o-ring arrangement, and a tendency toward tail low trim with the Mako.