Check dive scam

[pjones]

I understand that, somewhere, there are photos . . .

Photos? We all like photos...

 

[Midget]

I'm pretty sure that the compulsory check out dive we did at Kapalai Resort was to ascertain who got to go to Sipadan the next day.

 

[mjh]

As mentioned I think Check-Out dives are a great idea. If they are done properly there is no way you can do them in 10-15minutes. The one we did in the Galapagos with the Sky Dancer was a good example. 3-4 people in our group of 9 had serious issues and it took the dive guide at least 1/2 hour to get them somewhat sorted out. We just putted around, well worth it IMHO to try to avoid issues on future dives.

This should be mandatory at any resort/live-aboard where people are doing multiple dives. My only issue is Paying for it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As mentioned I think Check-Out dives are a great idea. If they are done properly there is no way you can do them in 10-15minutes. The one we did in the Galapagos with the Sky Dancer was a good example. 3-4 people in our group of 9 had serious issues and it took the dive guide at least 1/2 hour to get them somewhat sorted out. We just putted around, well worth it IMHO to try to avoid issues on future dives.

This should be mandatory at any resort/live-aboard where people are doing multiple dives. My only issue is Paying for it.

Would you feel the same way if you arrived at that resort at 10 AM and were told you couldn't dive until you did your checkout dive tomorrow?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[vladimir]

As mentioned I think Check-Out dives are a great idea. If they are done properly there is no way you can do them in 10-15minutes. The one we did in the Galapagos with the Sky Dancer was a good example. 3-4 people in our group of 9 had serious issues and it took the dive guide at least 1/2 hour to get them somewhat sorted out. We just putted around, well worth it IMHO to try to avoid issues on future dives.

This should be mandatory at any resort/live-aboard where people are doing multiple dives. My only issue is Paying for it.

It sounds like there were 3-4 people who were not ready to dive the Galapagos. As a vacation diver who occasionally has long breaks between dives, I appreciate an easy first dive to knock the rust off, but if I needed a divemaster to sort out "serious issues," I think I would reassess my readiness to dive at all.

 

[k374]

the problem is that all the ops I talked to that wanted check dives here wanted to charge the regular dive rate for it. So, here is the messed up part.. these ops will not accept local references from their peers. I give you an example:

I am currently diving with Poseidon divers in Dahab, done several deep dives with them to over 100 feet without any problems. However, I wasn't able to do the Blue hole since I had ear issues. Poseidon is doing the Blue Hole again but with AOW students so I may not be able to join that group and I have only a day more here so I was trying to find others...

So I go to Desert Divers, tell them I have a log book full of dives, an AOW and also they can get a referral from Poseidon. They refuse and want to do their own check dive in some shallow reef for 35 Euros. After a lot of debate they finally relent but their initial stance that they would not accept a referral still puzzles me.

This particularly seems to be a money making racket to me...if safety was of primary concern a referral from the local Divermaster of a reputed shop like Poseidon should suffice.

 

[mjh]

I would hope that if a check out dive is required that they have someone available to do it. If not then they make their policy known in advance so people can plan around it. How many times have you been out with a group and you hear about all their experience and then you see them underwater and think WTF????? Yes sadly those with good control pay the price (literally it seems) for those who don't.

While I will not claim perfect buoyancy I have NEVER been on a trip were I felt the Majority of our group had decent buoyancy. Yes I feel protecting the reef is worth some advance planning.

 

[Lingfield]

the problem is that all the ops I talked to that wanted check dives here wanted to charge the regular dive rate for it. So, here is the messed up part.. these ops will not accept local references from their peers. I give you an example:

I am currently diving with Poseidon divers in Dahab, done several deep dives with them to over 100 feet without any problems. However, I wasn't able to do the Blue hole since I had ear issues. Poseidon is doing the Blue Hole again but with AOW students so I may not be able to join that group and I have only a day more here so I was trying to find others...

So I go to Desert Divers, tell them I have a log book full of dives, an AOW and also they can get a referral from Poseidon. They refuse and want to do their own check dive in some shallow reef for 35 Euros. After a lot of debate they finally relent but their initial stance that they would not accept a referral still puzzles me.

This particularly seems to be a money making racket to me...if safety was of primary concern a referral from the local Divermaster of a reputed shop like Poseidon should suffice.

Poseidon themselves charge separately for a "check dive" which is a boring affair outside their centre. They won't include it in a multi dive package so it becomes pricey

 

[kaerius]

On my last dive trip my first dive was a check dive, mind you I hadn't dived for almost two years, but I told the dive shop owner some of my experiences. We went to an easy site but one that has a wreck. I did mask remove/replace, and reg recovery teaching style while hovering, then we went down to the wreck, to 30 meters, with penetration(small wreck, never out of sunlight, difficulty level: swimthrough).

Price: normal fun dive, was counted into my package deal(I did 22 dives with them before going on a liveaboard, and came back to do another 19 after). This was in Maldives.

 

[DevonDiver]

I notice many dive operators here in the Red Sea area want a "check dive" first in order to dive with them...I did find others of course that did not have this requirement so I dove with them...the ones that insisted on check dives lost my business which is too bad for them!

You are unlikely to be the only one walking past the dive operations that exercise that policy. So... ask yourself.. why they are willing to sacrifice a substantial volume of their trade?

Could it be because;

1) They are willing to put customer safety before profits.
2) They are willing to put environment/reef protection before profits.
3) They are willing to ensure customer satisfaction before profits.

Could it be ethics over profits?

..for 30 Euros or something like that of course...take you to a shallow area to "test" your buoyancy skills..Is this some kind of scam to generate extra revenue?

First, they probably lose a lot more money in lost trade than they make from this supposed 'scam'.

Second, they aren't going to take you to a deep area to "test" your buoyancy skills.

Third, it costs money to fill cylinders, to put gas in boats, to pay staff for the time it takes to conduct the check-outs.

A question: How did the cost of the 'check-out' compare to the cost of a routine 'fun dive'?

This is regardless of any other proof (AOW card, log books etc)

Value of C-Cards. To be honest, the standard of diver competency is so variable that a certification card means very, very little in respect to diving skills and safety. This is something you will certainly come to appreciate more as you gain more experience.

Skill Fade. Very few divers actively practice their open water skills once qualified (do you?). This results in distinct skill fade. Bear in mind that neither AOW, nor most other subsequent training courses, offer the chance to practice/rehearse/remember those core diving/safety skills. It is beneficial to get a refresher with them...and most divers don't seek out regular 'scuba reviews' (as they are advised to do on their Open Water course).

Equipment and Comfort. In addition, most inexperienced divers benefit from an initial 'easy' dive on which they can confirm no problems with their scuba equipment. Rental kit sometimes has unreported glitches (previous customer doesn't report damage/breakage/problem etc) and diver's own kit might have been gathering dust under the stairs for 12 months or more. It also allows the chance to 'dial-in' your weighting requirements and get 'comfortable' in the water if you've not dived for a long while (most 'vacation divers' go for 12 months or more between dives).

Faked Log Books. I've also seen several divers who've obviously 'faked' log books - all three of them were in the Red Sea. Their log books illustrated that they were very experienced (500+ dives), but their skills were atrocious. The reason that I remember those three divers is because each one of them caused a very real incident that risked the safety of themselves and other divers. I wish those three divers had been made to complete check-outs...and so did many other customers on their boats...

My Perspective. The last time I did a recreational 'check-out' dive was in the Maldives (I've done one on every trip there). I was technical diving instructor, with 3000+ dives at the time. I still had to go to the shallows and demonstrate a hover, air-share, mask remove/replace etc. Ego is put aside... after all, it's no challenge for me to complete their requirements. I'd opt to do an 'easy' shallow dive first anyway... I like to know if my kit is damaged in transit etc...

The Benefits. In addition to providing you with a refresher of core skills (honestly, who doesn't need one?), the chance to confirm equipment function and get your weighting sorted... a universal policy on check-out dives also ensures that the operation has a realistic understanding of each divers' strengths and weaknesses. This has direct benefits for the individual diver. It means;

1) You won't get buddied with an unsafe diver.
2) Divers can be grouped according to more equal skill/ability parameters.
3) Divers won't get taken to sites/dives beyond their comfort zones.

As an experienced, competent and confident diver, I don't focus on the 'drawback' that I have to complete a check-out... but rather the benefit that my potential buddies have had to perform one. I'm more likely to enjoy my diving vacation because my dives won't be spoiled (and safety jeopardized) by neglectful, incompetent and unsafe dive buddies.