Check dives, private DMs, and local/shop policies

[Mike]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

I doubt Dave is going to miss your business. I know he'd rather miss a little business here and there in return for being able to sleep well at night knowing he runs one of the safest dive operations on Cozumel. There are a lot of things about Aldora Divers that are different than the rest of the dive ops on Cozumel, some are small things some are big things, but it's hard to ignore that success is an indicator of his zigging while everyone else is zagging was the right decision.

It can be a bit un-nerving to realize you're being evaluated and judged by his divemasters, but Dave doesn't have to worry about getting a call that he has a missing diver on Baracudda because his divemasters took a mixed group there.

 

[ggunn]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

Actually, this is typical of many, if not most, dive ops on Cozumel. If they don't know you they will want to dive with you first before taking you to advanced sites. It's not meant to be insulting, just an act of self preservation. If I had a dive op I would do the same thing. I have seen divers with an AOW card and full log books act like they had never been in the water before. Talk is cheap.

The good news is that even the "easy" Cozumel dives are fantastic.

 

[ggunn]

I doubt Dave is going to miss your business. I know he'd rather miss a little business here and there in return for being able to sleep well at night knowing he runs one of the safest dive operations on Cozumel. There are a lot of things about Aldora Divers that are different than the rest of the dive ops on Cozumel...

But this isn't one of them. Lots of Cozumel ops do the same thing, and with good reason.

 

[BRT]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

I think every dive operation we have been out with over the last 16 years has first taken us on an easy beginner dive and watched us like a hawk until they verified we were not suicidal. We have been on boats with people who had lots of logged dives and lots of cert cards to show who ran out of air in the first few minutes of 100' dives. One saw a shark and breathed their tank down in minutes. Another thought a speargun was pointed in their direction across the reef and had a panic. I don't think advanced certs and logged dives mean much and the DM's know it. A lot of really good experienced divers only hold OW cards and don't log dives.

Brian

 

[ggunn]

I think every dive operation we have been out with over the last 16 years has first taken us on an easy beginner dive and watched us like a hawk until they verified we were not suicidal. We have been on boats with people who had lots of logged dives and lots of cert cards to show who ran out of air in the first few minutes of 100' dives. One saw a shark and breathed their tank down in minutes. Another thought a speargun was pointed in their direction across the reef and had a panic. I don't think advanced certs and logged dives mean much and the DM's know it. A lot of really good experienced divers only hold OW cards and don't log dives.

What he said. I'll just add that it's partly because it's Cozumel. Maybe on Palau or Phuket they will take more notice of your certs and logs because not that many divers go there, comparatively speaking, and if you've gone to all the expense and effort to get there, it means that you are probably a serious diver. Cozumel is deluged by hordes of divers every day of the year, some who are competent, and some who are not. Out of that crowd, it only takes one stroke diver who talks a good game but can't walk the walk on a challenging dive to ruin a shop's business. I'd be careful, too.

BTW, I've been diving Cozumel for 20 years with only an OW cert and I hate paperwork. I haven't kept a log since my cert dives. The op I dive with will take me anywhere I want to go because they know me and my capabilities.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Cozumel is an alluring place for beginner divers, due to its proximity to the US and good tourist infrastructure. My first trip to Coz, I had maybe 50 dives in my logbook. I didn't fully realize how challenging some of the dives can be for beginners.

 

[drrich2]

I'm not sure that this incident points towards the need for dive ops to change anything, quite honestly. Of course all dive ops should be constantly concerned about safety, most are, and as has been pointed out the overall safety record of Cozumel, considering all factors, is quite strong.

I agree. Anytime there's a fatal diving incident (which this one may or may not turn out to be, I take it), there's a natural tendency to start in with 'they should've done more.' If only this or that training modification were enacted, or this dive shop policy were universal, or dive cert.s had to be renewed or supported with continuing education, and so on & so on.

Disclaimer: I tend to vote Republican (though I file as an Independent) and am highly skeptical of the prospects of 'Big Government' solving Life's problems (I work in a state facility, and of course I see some of what the O'Bama and Congress are doing in the news...$16 Trillion debt, anyone?).

That said, I do not see stacking on layers of bureaucracy as a desirable reaction to the perceived problem. Especially since diver deaths will occur from time to time, leading to more and more regulation.

My concern is that when family and friends come to a forum like ScubaBoard, and read threads like this, they may come away with the sense that 'more should've been done,' and their loved one is dead due to negligence (e.g.: she wasn't trained properly, the dive op. took her to an inappropriate site without assessing her adequately, her buddy didn't watch her closely enough, not every dive boat in Cozumel joined the search, etc...), and there should be 'change.' Pretty much every death discussed on this forum entails some speculation, including about how the world could be 'better.'

Richard.

P.S.: While I like the idea of making the first dive an 'easy reef' dive, it could impact business. I dove twice in Cozumel one day during a cruise stop. We hit Palancar Garden the first dive, then Santa Rosa the second. P.G. was okay, but Santa Rosa a much better dive (just my one time anecdotal experience). Many people dive on cruise vacation, and only get 2 dives in. An op. that gets a rep. for always doing a common simple site for one dive might be passed over for one that doesn't. If I went back to Cozumel for a week, I'd be happy to hit Palancar Garden again. But if I were only getting 2 dives in, it wouldn't be my first choice, and Cozumel gets a lot of repeat business.

 

[DandyDon]

As far as suggesting that newbies & rusty divers hire private DMs the first day or even a few days, many of us have here for some time - and I only wish more would. I wish more Instructors would push that idea. We all have our opinions and I do not think of Cozumel as good newbie diving, would rather see them on a Key Largo boat that caters to newbies - and that's where I went first. Newbies & cruise boat divers are going to show up in Coz tho, diving rental gear they don't know and such. The losses per 100,000 dives may well be low, but some safer suggestions might be appropriate.

 

[mstevens]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

I've been on dives with numerous "highly trained" divers who had lots of logged dives over the years who absolutely terrified me. Watching this from the sidelines for nearly 30 years since I last instructed, the more someone talks about his certifications while avoiding demonstrating his skills the more likely I am to want to stay away from him.

As others have pointed out, this is very common practice on Cozumel. I've been diving since 1980. I'm a former NAUI Divemaster and Assistant Instructor, a current NAUI Master Diver and I go to Cozumel as often as possible since we love it and have a house there. I've dived with the same divemaster/instructor for several years. He knows us well enough to tell if my son's girlfriend has a new bit of gear. He nevertheless prefers that we do a non-challenging dive first if it's been more than 2 months since our last dive with him. I fully support this practice.

I absolutely do not want to be on a dive with you when we are at Barracuda or doing Devil's Throat in reverse unless the DM has first personally vetted your diving skills instead of just looking at some paperwork.

 

[oly5050user]

Thanks! I will never be diving with Aldora Divers! To brag about disregarding completely and utterly all log books (and i assume certifications and experience) is insulting to say the least! Seems kinda arrogant too... The entire diving certification universe is inadequate for your operation, and the only way to getting an advanced dive is to prove yourself on a paid dive on a shallow reef... Aldora...

So you think because someone has certifications/log books that they are qualified to dive anywhere they want? No way..I don't even trust to take an instructor out on my boat until I go in the water with them and see that they are safe..I was down in Coz last year with my wife at La Cieba diving with Babieca divers and was signing up for a first dive with an operator that I never knew before. There was a person in line ahead of me acting all upset because the operator would not take them until he was "evaluated " by them to be capable to dive..He went on and on about such an expert he is,he is an instructor,blah,blah...After he left I told the individual at the operation that I like the idea of checking out unknowns and that I want him personally to check me out, thinking I can have some fun like putting my tank on upside down, dive with only 1 fin, or no mask,or mask replacement with an upside down mask and clear it..He said,"no, I don't have to check you out,that guy I remember from last year and he can't dive"...I told him I really liked his policy!