DAN Question

[DandyDon]

I've been certified for a while but really didn't start diving much until the end of last summer. I plan on doing it a lot more in the future and I think now its time to sign up for DAN and the DAN insurance.

I'm wondering if anyone knows if the coverage begins right away or if I have to wait 30 days or something like that. Another thing I'm not clear about is the insurance for a spouse. The DAN coverage you can get a family plan but is the insurance just per person or for the entire family plan or what? Do they offer a family insurance plan. My wife dives but probably only on vacation for the most part. I'd still like her to be covered though.

OMG!

You have been diving without dive insurance? If you have some of the best medical insurance in the US that might work, but you need to be very sure of it to dive once that way - IMO. I've seen 6 divers leave by ambulance, 2 of whom wouldn't have lived if DAN hadn't been there right then, that day, to guarantee payments by phone - regardless of any possible co-pays to be determined later.

One of the best parts of DAN membership is the TravelAssist which has saved many divers by getting them where they needed to be. Travel must be arranged thru them, but they're there 24/7 to make it done, and if you don't call back - they often call to check on you once a case is open. This was very important for the two I mentioned that wouldn't have made it. One had to have a special plane fly in around a Cat-5 hurricane headed for where she was, pick her up, and get her back to Florida - flying at lower altitudes with full medical staff and such. The other needed heart surgery the Exumas. Know where they are? They barely have a doctor on the island, but he got flown to Florida too. I don't think they paid on his surgery since it was not really a dive accident, but they still got him to the best available - no small feat, on their expense.

Dive Assure has good insurance too if you live in a state where they are licensed. Some do; some don't. No one should dive without dive insurance tho, not even OW students. Damn! :shocked2:

All this malarkey about which is primary and which is secondary is a marketing gimmick by the new company and confusing at best in these discussions - badly misunderstood.

If you have great medical insurance that covers dive accidents even out of the US and DAN or DA ins, they split the expenses. Do you care how much each pays, or just that you get immediate guarantees and treatment - and not out mega bucks?

If you have crappy insurance and DAN or DA ins, they split the bill. Your crappy insurance may not pay anything so the other gets to pay all, but whatever.

If you have no insurance and DAN or DA ins, the latter just pays.

My medical does not cover me out of US so I always take Trip ins which does include $100,000 medical and it would probly pay on any dive accident I might get into, so my Trip ins and my DAN ins - both secondary for that matter, still split the bill. Well, up to $200,000, then DAN takes over. They both have emergency evacuation that must be arranged thru them but DAN is who I'd use.​

Primary/Secondary, Primary/Primary, Secondary/Secondary - it really does not matter. DAN will make the guarantees needed that day or night, wire money to the chamber if needed, then settle up with the other company in their splitting later. There is a name for that department but I've been out of the industry too long to recall the word - yet they handle it day after day.

Like if you and a wife both had great insurance at work and had each covered on both, they're going to split the bills - how is their problem. I once assisted a lady whose daughter was covered on her own Blue Cross and the mom's as a dependent as well. The claim got bogged down so I helped keep it moving, reminding the phone agents: "Look. You're going to pay all of it. Some you can assign to one account, some the other, but it's all yours so get the money moving ok?" In reality they did have to pay from separate accounts per state regulations, but it did help keep them moving I think.

First advice: Spend some time on the DAN website, DAN Divers Alert Network

The 2010 member benefits handbook says (page 18) that there is no waiting period for insurance to be effective, but it requires confirmation that payment has been received.

Yep. The very first guy who I saw carried off in an ambulance didn't have DAN. Fortunately he got treated and the needs were not too great. That night, a number of divers signed up online from the Cozumel hotel lobby computer, and two days later I loaded one into an ambulance. He'd been covered since he paid; as long as you get online confirmation - cool.

There is no "family plan" insurance AFAIK. There is a family membership in DAN. Insurance is purchased separately for each individual, but you have to be a member to buy the insurance. So, for example, you would pay $55 for a family membership, and $75 each for the preferred plan insurance, for a total of $205 / year for a couple.

Yeah, that is a little confusing at first. It's $35/year for one to be a member, $20/more for the second or for as many eligible family members to your membership as you desire. Includes the same valuable benefits listed under Individual Membership. I'm sure they save some operating expenses by handling the family as a group, and they may only get one magazine - but it's a good discount.

Dive insurance is extra, and I don't think there is any discount on family members. DAN handles all the records, billing, etc and the discount is on the family membership.

Do a search, the concensus here on SB seems to be to get the preferred, but you could save a little with the other plans.

Just don't settle for the bottom plan, with either company. Both are dogs, better than nothing but not a good idea compared to the middle plan. DAN's Master plan is only $10/year more but much better. See line by line comparison http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/insurance/compare.asp

OK, Thanks guys. I signed both of us up for the the master. Like you said, I've read that most like the preferred, but the master is good too. I figured I'd stay away from the standard. Hopefully this is a huge waste of money

​

Also understand that DAN insurance is Secondary insurance. Your primary insurance would have to either pay or deny the claim for DAN to then kick in.

https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/membership/memberfaqs.asp

"Does my DAN Membership provide dive accident insurance?
No, DAN Membership does not include dive accident insurance. DAN offers three different levels of insurance coverage: The DAN Standard Plan, The DAN Master Plan and The DAN Preferred Plan. All three levels are secondary insurance payable after your primary insurance."

Personally I didn't trust Blue Cross Blue Shield for primary coverage so I invested in DiveAssure for my primary insurance with having DAN as my secondary.

DiveAssure Scuba Diving Insurance - The Best in Dive Accident and Dive Travel Insurance

Good luck!

Mike thanks for bringing that up. I was reading the tread about DAN and was wondering if anyone has looked into Dive Assure. I believe that Dive Assure is primary insurance. I am looking into Dive Assure and would like anyone's $0.02 worth. Pros/Cons and so forth. Thanks!

It's great if they sell in your state. You can still be a DAN member with DA insurance. Just don't get the bottom plan.

Mike, I remember reading elsewhere that you decided to get both DiveAssure and DAN so both your primary and secondary would be covered.

That makes sense to me.

I'm already a DAN member with insurance.

Looking at the DiveAssure site, I can get their "Gold" plan, i.e., their basic coverage for $79, which seems pretty reasonable.

Did you do this or did you go for one of the more expensive plans? I'm thinking I would only need DA's basic plan since DAN would pick up where DiveAssure's coverage would stop.

I do like overlapping coverage, but if you have decent medical insurance that does not exclude scuba risks and/or international needs, or for the latter do comprehensive Trip insurance like mine - either DAN or DA ins will split with the other. Primary/Secondary, Primary/Primary, Secondary/Secondary - it really does not matter.

Yes, yes - tell everyone with a mask and fins to get dive insurance, OW students can have it for free during training if their Inst will just do the requests, don't settle for the cheapest on either - but mixing DAN and DA insurance is a waste. It's your money and your call of course, but in comparing opinions and suggestions to others - mine remain as stated above.

BTW, DAN carries a number of other insurance products, probly because members asked for them - may have sounded like good ideas, but you can usually do better elsewhere on the others.

 

[mikecotrone]

Mike thanks for bringing that up. I was reading the tread about DAN and was wondering if anyone has looked into Dive Assure. I believe that Dive Assure is primary insurance. I am looking into Dive Assure and would like anyone's $0.02 worth. Pros/Cons and so forth. Thanks!

For example: Your primary health care provider does not cover your diving related injuries which means then you have to come out of pocket until you file with DAN and then they process your claim. In the same above example with DiveAssure for primary they would wire payment immediately (worldwide) to your care provider.

DiveAssure prices your insurance based on the number of dives you make per year and how many major diving trips you make each year (Diamond Program).

For the amount of money it costs for both DiveAssure and DAN I felt that it was very affordable for both. I have a wife and four kids so it was a no brainer for me.

 

[Downing]

DandyDon,

Bear with me for just a minute. Here's my situation:

I have no idea if my health insurance is crappy or great or even if it covers and to what degree it covers local and/or international dive accidents. I'm reasonably healthy and see a doctor only about once every two to three years, so I've never really had to put my health insurance to the test.

I'm self-employed, so my health insurance comes from my wife's employer's group plan. I wouldn't know how to go about checking on dive accident info other than calling whatever 1-800 number is on the back of the card and talking to a hopefully real human being, who may or may not give me accurate info. And for all I know the coverage could change for the worse between the time I call and the time I have an accident.

So under these circumstances, if I can get away with paying $79 for DA's dog plan on top of my DAN Preferred Plan to make sure I'm covered I don't see the harm other than I'm out the cost of a nice meal and a bottle of wine plus tip, which for the sake of my marriage I do from time to time anyway.

Your thoughts? I appreciate your opinion.

Nice hat, btw.

 

[Arkman]

I know, diving without insurance is not a good idea. But I didn't know that when I started. I learned later, like so many people, that not all instructors/shops are created equal. I no dive through a better shop. And thanks to so many great people on the board I'm learning a lot about a ton of things.

I'm not quite sure what you guys mean by "Primary" and "Secondary". Believe me, I don't trust BCBS of ND all, so I want to make sure I'm covered. (As a side note, I understand WHY insurance companies could have the need for an exemption based on pre-existing conditions but when you wife has been covered by the same insurance company SINCE BIRTH and then quits her job and applies for insurance for a self employed person they turn her away because of one kidney stone incident almost 2 years ago...that really gets me.) Ok, back to the task at hand. You guys are saying that DAN only covers me when my insurance doesn't? I guess I don't understand the "Secondary" vs. "Primary" thing. Could someone elaborate?

 

[DandyDon]

DandyDon,

Bear with me for just a minute. Here's my situation:

I have no idea if my health insurance is crappy or great or even if it covers and to what degree it covers local and/or international dive accidents. I'm reasonably healthy and see a doctor only about once every two to three years, so I've never really had to put my health insurance to the test.

I'm self-employed, so my health insurance comes from my wife's employer's group plan. I wouldn't know how to go about checking on dive accident info other than calling whatever 1-800 number is on the back of the card and talking to a hopefully real human being, who may or may not give me accurate info. And for all I know the coverage could change for the worse between the time I call and the time I have an accident.

So under these circumstances, if I can get away with paying $79 for DA's dog plan on top of my DAN Preferred Plan to make sure I'm covered I don't see the harm other than I'm out the cost of a nice meal and a bottle of wine plus tip, which for the sake of my marriage I do from time to time anyway.

Your thoughts? I appreciate your opinion.

Nice hat, btw.

You can read the benefits book supplied with your medical insurance. It may be boring but not so hard to understand. Regardless, if you have no medical coverage at all plus the DAN preferred plan, then incurred a diving accident - DAN would cover all of it. They may exclude some things like a box of kleenex, non-medical charges hospitals like to blend in, but they all do that. Just look at the DAN dive ins coverage: no deductibles, no 80% rates, just coverage.

But if you feel better having both, that's your money, your call. I just don't want to see a rumor started that it's needed. There are many stories about how well DAN paid for dive accidents, wiring money to chambers in other countries if needed, but I do not think you will ever see one about "I'm so glad I had both DAN and DA."

The bottom DA plan is not as bad as the bottom DAN plan, but for most divers choosing between DA and DAN, spend the extra $20 for much better coverage on the middle plan at least. DAN's bottom plan sucks and is only $10/year cheaper. I once enjoyed a phone chat with DAN's president about another subject but asked why the hell they didn't get rid of that dog. He said many members only wanted it, so they keep it.

Do make sure you always have good dive ins at either, carry your info two places and let your dive buddy & boat skipper know where they are - I wear a DAN tag on my BC and a dog tag with name and DAN info from my neck, and call DAN dive emergency number ASAP even if you insure with DA as the doctors are there to help even if you're not a member.

Some clinics in the diving world won't treat you until they confirm coverage so the sooner they can call DAN the better; I've read of delays while info was obtain from the hotel room. :shocked2: In some rare cases they still want money up front and DAN will wire it if needed. In some cases members with platinum credit cards and in pain may just pay and file later, but some of us are not that rich.

 

[Arkman]

Dandy Don,
Thanks for the info. So right now I have blue cross of North Dakota. I'm assuming that they cover zero of a dive accident. Does this mean I'd have to pay out of pocket in case of an emergency then get reimbursed from DAN?

And as I understand it DA covers upfront with no out of pocket expense from me?

Do I have this right?

 

[eponym]

I'm not quite sure what you guys mean by "Primary" and "Secondary". [snip] You guys are saying that DAN only covers me when my insurance doesn't? I guess I don't understand the "Secondary" vs. "Primary" thing. Could someone elaborate?

Sure. Here's a recent but non-diving example from my own family's life . . .

You get sick just before departing another country to return home from your vacation. You are taken off the plane, hospitalized, treated for bacterial pneumonia (really bad stuff). Ten days later they sign you off as good to go home.

Primary insurance in this case was Medicare, then a Medigap policy. Medicare does not pay for anything out of country. The Medigap provider pays 80% of "out of country" medical expenses that would be covered by Medicare if they had been delivered in-country.

And the trip insurance policy you bought when booking this trip pays the difference. So first we had to bill the Medigap provider and wait for their reimbursement. Then we sent the same claim to the trip insurance firm plus the notice of reimbursement from the Medigap company. The trip insurance company then cut us a check for whatever had not been reimbursed.

In simplest terms, a "secondary" provider wants to see that you submitted your claim to the "primary" and they want to see how much you were paid. They are only liable for whatever your primary policy did not cover.

In our case the process took about two and a half months and I thought it went pretty well. We didn't end up paying out of pocket for any of the medical stuff. And trip insurance also covered hotel, stolen luggage, that sort of thing.

-Bryan

PS. DAN insurance may not pay directly for treatments but will reimburse you later. One of their absolute best features is coordinating transport, treatment, advice, and evacuation wherever in the world you are.

 

[DandyDon]

Dandy Don,
Thanks for the info. So right now I have blue cross of North Dakota. I'm assuming that they cover zero of a dive accident. Does this mean I'd have to pay out of pocket in case of an emergency then get reimbursed from DAN?

And as I understand it DA covers upfront with no out of pocket expense from me?

Do I have this right?

Nope. It's up to the clinic/chamber you go to. Some will confirm your DAN coverages then just send them the bills, some are even easier altho that is rare, and some will require payment up front leaving you to file claims for reimbursement. In those last cases, DAN can be asked to wire money, but it would be faster to pay and claim. Many of those have a deal with dive operators to accept DAN without prepay if the Ops or diver subscribe to supporting the chamber with daily dive fees.

If you are in ND, you can't get Dive Assure anyway. Not licensed there.

Hey, phone DAN and ask them. It's a free call. You have their numbers in your cell phone, right? If not, please add them. http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/contact/index.asp

 

[Arkman]

Dandy Don,
I live in Minnesota. Which I believe DA covers. I just work in ND so I have my insurance through BCBS of ND.

So then, if I understand this right, it really just depends on how each clinic/facility runs things. Be it DA or DAN, I might have to pay and get reimbursed?

I do have the DAN numbers in my phone. I just haven't had a chance to call them yet.

Thanks for your insight though. Insurance stuff always confuses me.

 

[mikecotrone]

Mike, I remember reading elsewhere that you decided to get both DiveAssure and DAN so both your primary and secondary would be covered.

That makes sense to me.

I'm already a DAN member with insurance.

Looking at the DiveAssure site, I can get their "Gold" plan, i.e., their basic coverage for $79, which seems pretty reasonable.

Did you do this or did you go for one of the more expensive plans? I'm thinking I would only need DA's basic plan since DAN would pick up where DiveAssure's coverage would stop.

Downing, I ended up going with the DiveAssure Diamond Plan and the Preferred DAN plan. However any type of insurance you get no matter on the coverage is a smart decision in my book. It just depends on your situation to the level of coverage. I have a large family so I have to get more insurance than most

I got the "Diamond - Multi Trip 1 (Year)" for $440.00 per year. This page shows a great breakdown of the Gold, Platinum, and Diamond programs. http://www.diveassure.com/new/usa/diveassure_programs.html

Also to point out that DiveAssure has many more features than just medical/accident expense payments. Check the above link for the extra benefits to see if it is something you are interested in.

Good luck!