danger: solo openwater vs. cave diving w. buddy

[duckbill]

I'm just fishing for educated opinions here:

I'm wondering if open water solo diving is statistically or inherently more or less dangerous/safe than cave diving, even with a buddy, and why.

I realize there are so many possible parameters and scenarios, so I'm just wondering what the opinions are. I also realize that asking this question here in the solo forum is inviting a bias, so please try to be civil and analytical in your answer.
Thanks.

 

[GDI]

Thats a fare question.
Scuba divers must understand and acknowledge that no amount of preparation and training can fully eliminate the risks inherent to scuba diving.

Each environment and form of diving has it's risks in addition to the common risks associated with diving in general. If one is trained for the activity then the risks should be minimized but not eliminated. Solo and Cave diving are different activities and while each has it's own uniqueness there are some similarities regarding diver responsibility. The risk level could be the same. Keep in mind the solo diver does have the option of a direct ascent the cave diver does not

 

[Charlie99]

For some reason, this question reminds me of a teenager arguing that "everyone else gets to do it"; or someone trying to excuse their bad behavior by pointing out someone else with even worse behavior.

Just like in those cases, what counts here is not the relative risk of the two different types of dives, but the risk vs. rewards for YOU on the particular dive you are considering.

Sufficiently civil and analytical?

 

[redacted]

I'm pretty sure that more divers have died alone in OW that have died in caves. So what really needs to be discussed is what denominator should be used to provide a valid basis of comparision. I'm also fairly sure that more swimmers have died in drowning type incidents than divers.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Not being trained in cave/cavern but actively dive solo my opinion probably is biased. Given the fact of a direct ascent to the surface in the event of a problem, solo for me seem to be less risky. I must admit tho I'd love to take a cave/cavern course. However until I can convince her otherwise my fiance is dead set against me doing it. She has heard too many stories about diver deaths in caves. We dove ginnie springs in march of this year and one of the first things she spotted was something about the number of divers who have died in fla caves. She does not dive and has heard nothing about solo deaths. She even freaked a little when she saw the pic of me next to the grim reaper sign in the entrance to the system. Did not go in of course but it was a neat photo op. Funny thing is she seems to be ok with me doing wrecks incluiding penetrations. Not solo at this point of course. I can do a cesa from 60 ft. I can't do one thru solid rock from any depth. Definitely a buddy increases chances of survival but even if you plan for the emergency what happens in the event of a major failure with both divers gear. Ok you switch to backups. But if you are in an unfamiliar place and the flow shifts and you need twice as much air to get back as you planned for or something collapses and you need an alternate route you may be screwed. I'm probably talking out my butt here but as I said I've not gotten training yet. Any cave/cavern divers feel free to correct me on these things, Jim

 

[Nemrod]

I used to cave dive, started in around 1971 cave diving. Met some of the old timers, well they were not old timers then. Then I met she who is most important in my life and it was told unto me that thou shalt not cave dive any more!!!!! Now, she allows me to solo dive, deep dive, fly airplanes upside down, race motorcycles and blow stuff up, solo hike Montana grizzly country but no cave diving! This should give you some idea of where she places the danger levels of various things. I tend to agree, cave diving is a dangereous sport. It is a sport. It ranks right up there or higher than just about anything in danger and required skills. It requires great skill, proper equipment, attitude and training, physical conditioning, preperation, planning and even then cave divers die. It is a risky undertaking and the main reason is the overhead environment plus total darkness.
I, on the other hand, rank solo diving as only slightly more dangerous than buddy diving. I am not going to argue about good buddies vs bad buddies because this is the solo forum anyway. That is how I rank it. As you stated there are many variables and I am sure there are some dives that done solo are very dangerous but still, over all, I just don't see solo diving as dangerous beyond the scope of what could be encountered in any dive, buddy or solo. We have discussed redundancy before and down to about 60 feet I consider the surface my reducndant air supply. Deeper I shift to a double set, H/Y valve set or similar arrangement depending upon what I got at the moment. Since I dive quality vintage gear I rebuilt and maintain myself I do not worry so much about mechanical malfunction like you might diving modern plastic stuff maintained by the LDS geek that just installed nitrous on his Civic and ground effects with drywall screws. OW solo diving has the same environment, conditions, dangers that buddy diving the same dive site would have. These are readily defineable. Before any dive you should study the site and plan for it, buddy or solo, and make appropriate plans and gear selections to support that dive.

I just see very little common ground between OW Solo and cave diving, they are very different animals and solo cave diviing, please put me on your insurance, thanks. N

 

[MikeFerrara]

Guys, guys, guys.

I don't know which is more dangerous between cave diving and solo diving and I don't care. I will tell you this though. My wife rarely allows me to solo dive because she always wants to come with. She does let me cave dive because as long as I don't do it solo, she gets to come with.

The moral of the story is, that the best way to get the wife to let you do anything is to get her to do it with you. However, once you're in my position you'll find out just how dangerous solo diving can be. If I even tried to get in the water without her she'd kill me for sure!

 

[Solitude Diver]

I would also definitely think caves are more dangerous (even with buddy) due to the lack of ability to ascend, potential for 0 visibility, potential for getting lost, etc.

Solo Tec (Deep/Deco) or Solo Wreck diving would make a similar comparison, as you have the same risks there as well, but perhaps adding other features such as entanglement hazards, and structural instability.

In those cases, I’d think they were similar in danger to caves, and then the buddy value would tip the scales for either scenario.

The arguments should be more like:

Apples: Buddy vs. Solo = added redundancy and safety factor
Oranges: OW vs. Confined = ability to ascend if nec.
Bananas: Happy Wife vs. Getting Your A _ _ Kicked for doing it!


Mixing the variables makes it hard (if not impossible) to compare. (Except when adding the Banana factor, that trumps the rest. eyebrow

 

[Rec Diver]

Diving with a buddy, or group, should be viewed as an assest and not a crutch. Cave diving is inherently more dangerous than open water diving because you can not directly ascend to the surface.

 

[wb416]

There's very little that you can't solve with a competent, trusted buddy in a cave.

I think solo is inherently more dangerous. Anytime you forget to bring your backup brain along, you are potentially susceptible to mental blips.