Dangers and options for swim throughs, down currents, and buddy teams/groups

[Dhboner]

In all my experience diving the in the Caribbean I have rarely seen decent buddy discipline (maybe I have just been unlucky). Most of the divers on the boats I have been on have gone over the side then went their separate ways looking at the wildlife (photographers are the worst). In many cases the DM will see the separation and try to corral the buddy pairs but that's not always possible. I have been paired with an "insta-buddy" and gone over the dive plan on route to the site only to have my new buddy take off on me at the first sign of a stingray. This has happened twice and in both cases I refused to do the second dive with the "buddy". I dive every week with my sons and we dive as a team (one is GUE trained) and we always know where everyone is at all times and we stay close. Proper buddy discipline isn't rocket science it just needs to be hammered home every time you head out on the water.

 

[redacted]

I agree. But seems that could easily occur in a separate thread in the Cozumel forum titled "dangers and options for dealing with swim throughs, down currents, and buddy teams/groups in Cozumel" without reference to a specific incident.

Yes, but events like this catch lots of attention and spark interest. After all, would the country be talking gun control if not for recent tragedies?

---------- Post added January 23rd, 2013 at 10:38 AM ----------

In all my experience diving the in the Caribbean I have rarely seen decent buddy discipline (maybe I have just been unlucky). Most of the divers on the boats I have been on have gone over the side then went their separate ways looking at the wildlife (photographers are the worst). In many cases the DM will see the separation and try to corral the buddy pairs but that's not always possible. I have been paired with an "insta-buddy" and gone over the dive plan on route to the site only to have my new buddy take off on me at the first sign of a stingray. This has happened twice and in both cases I refused to do the second dive with the "buddy". I dive every week with my sons and we dive as a team (one is GUE trained) and we always know where everyone is at all times and we stay close. Proper buddy discipline isn't rocket science it just needs to be hammered home every time you head out on the water.

It may not be rocket science; but where do you really think your buddy will be looking when a "rocket" goes by?

 

[fishi]

It's been my observation that lots of new divers feel very comfortable in the above and behind position because they can see the leader very well. Those newer divers need to make the mental shift that for their own safety it isn't how well they can see the leader but rather how well the leader can see them that is important. For both buddies side by the side is far superior positioning. I would wager that in most cases of buddy separation the positiong was either single file, or the buddies are diving sufficently away from each other the neither side by side nor single file describes their positioning. It's vitually impossible to lose your buddy when both are going slow and side by side.

I was taught that a buddy team is made up of a leader and a follower. All members of the team need to know what their role is and the signal for follow and lead. I think in most cases of separation there is no leader or follower just divers that get in the water together. My comments are not in reference to the accident but meant to help divers be better buddies.

 

[BDSC]

It's been my observation that lots of new divers feel very comfortable in the above and behind position because they can see the leader very well.

You are right on. My wife was one of the worlds worst about that. It took me awhile but I finally made her understand that it was much easier for me to see and keep in contact with her when I could look left or right and see her and not have to spin around and start looking up for her. One of her reasons for doing it she said was she knew she would use less air 10 ft. above me rather than be beside me. Of course now she actually dives beside me and still uses less air than me.

 

[boulderjohn]

My wife was not a good buddy on our first dives in Cozumel, she was so enthralled by what she saw. Despite nearly constant vigilance, she would get away from me. She was especially bad at staying just above and behind me.

It's been my observation that lots of new divers feel very comfortable in the above and behind position because they can see the leader very well. Those newer divers need to make the mental shift that for their own safety it isn't how well they can see the leader but rather how well the leader can see them that is important. For both buddies side by the side is far superior positioning.

I agree with diverrex, and will go as far as to say that in a normal buddy situation, it is very hard to do anything worse than having one of the divers above and behind the other. I have had a couple of regular buddies who had that tendency, and I had to tell them what a pain in the neck they were being. Literally. While they were keeping track of me effortlessly, I had to keep twisting my neck around to see them. And it was not a matter of my being ahead and below them. In each case, I kept trying to adjust, and they kept adjusting to my adjustment. One of them was just this weekend. I told them that if I had kept trying to get us in a position where I could see him by slowing down and ascending, it would not be long before we were swimming backward on the surface. In good buddy diving, both partners can see each other with ease.

 

[jewelofnile69]

You are right on. My wife was one of the worlds worst about that. It took me awhile but I finally made her understand that it was much easier for me to see and keep in contact with her when I could look left or right and see her and not have to spin around and start looking up for her. One of her reasons for doing it she said was she knew she would use less air 10 ft. above me rather than be beside me. Of course now she actually dives beside me and still uses less air than me.

I agree with diverrex, and will go as far as to say that in a normal buddy situation, it is very hard to do anything worse than having one of the divers above and behind the other. I have had a couple of regular buddies who had that tendency, and I had to tell them what a pain in the neck they were being. Literally. While they were keeping track of me effortlessly, I had to keep twisting my neck around to see them. And it was not a matter of my being ahead and below them. In each case, I kept trying to adjust, and they kept adjusting to my adjustment. One of them was just this weekend. I told them that if I had kept trying to get us in a position where I could see him by slowing down and ascending, it would not be long before we were swimming backward on the surface. In good buddy diving, both partners can see each other with ease.

I'm guilty of having wanted to be behind (not necessarily up) from my husband. For me, to be totally honest, it has more to do with a fear of the ocean (sharks...I know, not logical). Then I learned that I'd rather a shark come from the front then from behind (where I don't have eyes) so it wasn't logical to want to be in the back. My husband and I have since discussed (and started diving this way in local lakes) to always be side-by-side. I just copied and pasted the above quotes and sent to him via email to remind him this will be part of our dive plans when we get to Bonaire on the 9th. We have also gotten very anal about doing our buddy checks prior to diving since we both have a tendency to switch up where all of our equipment is since we are both guilty of changing our minds on "positioning." For example, we both have new back inflate BCs and I'm diving mine with a crotch strap. We are very particular about knowing how to get things off above water and then even practice taking each other's gear off in water to be safe (it also helps in the bedroom).

Once again, I'm learning a ton from this thread.

Reefhound, I agree what you said...but I also agree with AWAPs response that the only reason we are even discussing this is because the thread itself about the missing diver sparked interest here. Once again, I completely feel for the family.

 

[peterbj7]

It's been my observation that lots of new divers feel very comfortable in the above and behind position because they can see the leader very well

And because they don't feel confident leading their small "group". Illustrates a point I made earlier in a slightly different context - inexperienced divers need both a leader AND a tail-end Charlie. I can think of two Italian divers in the Red Sea who are alive purely because of that discipline. Of course, it means that dive shops in resorts need more staff in the water which costs more money, and there's the rub. Since so many visitors (to our shores at least) choose their dive operator purely on price, they are pretty well guaranteeing they will NOT get these extra services which can make all the difference.

---------- Post added January 23rd, 2013 at 11:48 AM ----------

In all my experience diving the in the Caribbean I have rarely seen decent buddy discipline (maybe I have just been unlucky)

Here in Belize that's largely because dives are conducted in groups with a qualified leader, which lessens the importance of buddy pairs. But nonetheless, there are times when buddy pairs are necessarily "one in front, one behind". How often are the necessary disciplines taught? That the duty of remaining together rests on BOTH people, so the one behind mustn't stop or slow to look at something unless the one in front does the same, and the one in front always knows where his buddy is. Divers aren't fitted with rear view mirrors, and these skills, although perhaps not rocket science, aren't trivial either, but need to be taught, learned, and practiced.

 

[boulderjohn]

But nonetheless, there are times when buddy pairs are necessarily "one in front, one behind". How often are the necessary disciplines taught? That the duty of remaining together rests on BOTH people, so the one behind mustn't stop or slow to look at something unless the one in front does the same, and the one in front always knows where his buddy is. Divers aren't fitted with rear view mirrors, and these skills, although perhaps not rocket science, aren't trivial either, but need to be taught, learned, and practiced.

As long as we are in a learning mode for people participating in this thread....

In addition to the tip above, when the situation is best for a front/back alignment, there are some things you can do to keep contact. If you are drifting along a wall or exploring a wall slowly, facing the wall as you drift makes it easy to keep your buddy in sight. If you are facing forward, divers who are in good trim can easily check on the buddy by tipping the head down and looking back between the legs--assuming the buddy behind is on the same plane or lower and not above as well. If you are diving in a low light situation, the diver behind can help out by frequently moving his or her light beam near the front diver's light beam so it can be seen. If the diver behind sees the front diver looking around, be sure to work quickly to be seen.

 

[jewelofnile69]

As long as we are in a learning mode for people participating in this thread....

In addition to the tip above, when the situation is best for a front/back alignment, there are some things you can do to keep contact. If you are drifting along a wall or exploring a wall slowly, facing the wall as you drift makes it easy to keep your buddy in sight. If you are facing forward, divers who are in good trim can easily check on the buddy by tipping the head down and looking back between the legs--assuming the buddy behind is on the same plane or lower and not above as well. If you are diving in a low light situation, the diver behind can help out by frequently moving his or her light beam near the front diver's light beam so it can be seen. If the diver behind sees the front diver looking around, be sure to work quickly to be seen.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[fishi]

I agree with diverrex, and will go as far as to say that in a normal buddy situation, it is very hard to do anything worse than having one of the divers above and behind the other. I have had a couple of regular buddies who had that tendency, and I had to tell them what a pain in the neck they were being. Literally. While they were keeping track of me effortlessly, I had to keep twisting my neck around to see them. And it was not a matter of my being ahead and below them. In each case, I kept trying to adjust, and they kept adjusting to my adjustment. One of them was just this weekend. I told them that if I had kept trying to get us in a position where I could see him by slowing down and ascending, it would not be long before we were swimming backward on the surface. In good buddy diving, both partners can see each other with ease.

I agree 100%. If you can swim side by side you should swim side by side. You still should have a leader and a follower tho.