Deco dive plan sheet

[wedivebc]

I have been reading through all this and I do agree that hand calculating dive plans using navy tables, that no one should ever be diving in a recreational environment anyway is a waste of time. Or is it?

When I lay out a dive planner and teach my students how to use it, and to follow the rules of the tables I am not endorsing an obsolete dive profile.
I am demonstrating the important relationship between depth, time, tissue saturation and gas consumption and although all those numbers are available from a few mouse clicks on a computer, hand derived calculations involve the student in the process in such a way to give them an understanding of how desktop software derives those numbers.
To me it is an important lesson.

 

[ucfdiver]

I have been reading through all this and I do agree that hand calculating dive plans using navy tables, that no one should ever be diving in a recreational environment anyway is a waste of time. Or is it?

When I lay out a dive planner and teach my students how to use it, and to follow the rules of the tables I am not endorsing an obsolete dive profile.
I am demonstrating the important relationship between depth, time, tissue saturation and gas consumption and although all those numbers are available from a few mouse clicks on a computer, hand derived calculations involve the student in the process in such a way to give them an understanding of how desktop software derives those numbers.
To me it is an important lesson.

You consider copying information from a table that the navy publishes different than copying tables that vplanner displays? I don't consider either hand calculating myself.

 

[wedivebc]

You consider copying information from a table that the navy publishes different than copying tables that vplanner displays? I don't consider either hand calculating myself.

It's obvious from your comment you don't know what is involved in hand calculating a dive decompression schedule. It has nothing to do with copying information from a table other than planning deco times, and then calculating oxygen exposure and expected gas consumption. None of that information can be provided by the table unless you know how to derive it.
When I taught for ANDI we also used a washout ratio formula to accelerate deco times but since I don't teach ANDI anymore it no longer matters.
It was an exercise to develop an understanding of dive planning, not to plan dives.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I have been reading through all this and I do agree that hand calculating dive plans using navy tables, that no one should ever be diving in a recreational environment anyway is a waste of time. Or is it?

When I lay out a dive planner and teach my students how to use it, and to follow the rules of the tables I am not endorsing an obsolete dive profile.
I am demonstrating the important relationship between depth, time, tissue saturation and gas consumption and although all those numbers are available from a few mouse clicks on a computer, hand derived calculations involve the student in the process in such a way to give them an understanding of how desktop software derives those numbers.
To me it is an important lesson.

It's one thing to use hand calculations to show the relationship between all the factors. It's another thing to require students to plan actual dives using that method.

 

[rcpalmer1]

Fortunately, after this weekend, (God Willing and the weather doesn't turn), I will complete my AN/DP (after eight months!!!!) and be certified.

Just read through 14 pages. I can't believe nobody has commented on it taking 8 months for an AN/DP class. No wonder she is redoing the worksheet. 240 days she should be able to transcribe the manual blind folded.

So lets see how many people I can get excited. Let me start by saying the worst instructors I ever seen were some tec instructors. Most of their students thought they were good instructors because they didn't know they were getting bad information. I think after a month I would of started looking for someone who had time to teach the class. Not that I agree with it but I have seen more than one TDI instructor teach these same classes in three days, that includes the dives. I ended up in one of those classes and even though I had the card I took the class again to get the knowledge.

As an instructor now I think you should throw your sheet in the trash. You picked this instructor and he has a sheet he made up by copy and pasting what he wants you to know, use his for the class. That way all of the students are using the same sheet. When the instructor ask what is your calculation in the fourth box everyone in the class is looking at the same box on their sheet. After you are no longer training you can then make your own sheet.

I do agree with knowing how to do the calculation manually but wouldn't do it that way for a real dives. I run v-planner with contingencies and dive with at least two computers.

Once you start doing tec dives ask around for instructor recommendations before you do ER. I would be willing to bet you can find a better instructor.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Once you start doing tec dives ask around for instructor recommendations before you do ER. I would be willing to bet you can find a better instructor.

Really, ER?? Why would anyone bother taking a deep air class when they qualify to move on to Trimix?

 

[Blackwood]

Just read through 14 pages. I can't believe nobody has commented on it taking 8 months for an AN/DP class. No wonder she is redoing the worksheet. 240 days she should be able to transcribe the manual blind folded.

So lets see how many people I can get excited. Let me start by saying the worst instructors I ever seen were some tec instructors. Most of their students thought they were good instructors because they didn't know they were getting bad information. I think after a month I would of started looking for someone who had time to teach the class. Not that I agree with it but I have seen more than one TDI instructor teach these same classes in three days, that includes the dives. I ended up in one of those classes and even though I had the card I took the class again to get the knowledge.

Wait... are you in one breath knocking her class for being too long and yours for being so short you had to take it again?

There are performance standards associated with classes. Sometimes, not meeting them means the class goes on. Personally, I think it's the sign of a rather dedicated instructor who is willing to work with students for months when he could as easily sign you off and move on.

 

[TSandM]

My Fundamentals class took six months . . . I took the class, and got a provisional. I did a bunch of dives with my practice buddy and a couple with my instructor, and six months later I sat for a reeval and passed.

Sometimes you need some work before you can bring performance up to standards, and logistics can affect how often you can rendezvous with an instructor, too. (My Fundies instructor spent half the year in Italy.)

 

[wedivebc]

When I run a tech class I often do it in stages. Stage one demonstrate and practice the skills required for the training one at a time. Stage two student gains some experience with those skills and schedules a second session of class. Stage three student works with me at combining those individual skills into a seamless tech diving skill set. Stage four student conducts actual technical dives and applies those skills during supervised progressively challenging dives. This may take a couple of weeks or a couple of months depending on the student and is no reflection on my willingness to teach.

Completing a tech course in 3 days is nothing to brag about.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'll admit to teaching AN/DP in 3 days. However, almost all of my AN/DP students have already completed cavern and intro cave with me and are pretty squared away in the water and with dive planning by that time.