Dema show???

[chayes]

Listen, throwing out the statement that an organization is "non-profit" is completely meaningless. That is simply a designation for tax purposes. Far from being a "non-profit", DEMA receives considerable revenue, which is then paid out in the form of salaries, travel expenses, and other expenses for those who are involved in the "non-profit" organization.

Now, all of this is fine and good if it is in furtherance of some worthy objective. The questions becomes, has this organization really done anything to further the success of it's members? Now, I don't propose to answer this question, but it is a good one to be answered.

Oh, post us a link to those financial statements. I looked on the website, but couldn't find them.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

DEMA's financial statements are available on their members section. These financial statements are independently audited, so they are a pretty good read on what the association does. Check with a retail member of DEMA if you are not a member yourself...

 

[chayes]

When DEMA was in February, there was a lot of attendance, but when it moved to October, the attendance began falling off. The travel industry wanted the move. Most dive shops are still running trips in October.

Most equipment reps can do regional shows and see more shops at a lower expense. If you are a new company, you can make contacts that wouldn't have known have found out about you otherwise. An introductory email won't get the same response as an actual meeting. A good example is XS Scuba. They were new on the scene at DEMA a few years ago and since then their products and number of customers has grown.

Actually they post their audited numbers for the show every year...some years they are up, others they are down...but the general numbers don't mean much. 2004 was an off year for attendance numbers, but I remember that only the REAL buyers were there, not the instructors and divemasters that didn't think Houston was glamorous enough a city in which to do business (never mind that the Super Bowl was there that year)...numbers are not important...its the business done there that's important. In 2004 there was LOTS of business done. The attendance figures are just window dressing to uninitiated. Look for the BUYER numbers and ask if business was done. That's the only true measure.

 

[mike_s]

chayes.... are you an employee of DEMA?

The reason I ask this is that you've never graced us with your presence on Scubaboard before....

You just joined today and somehow you imediately found this post and all 11 of your current posts are in this thread.


So I'm guessing it's possible that you are a DEMA employee or are associated with them somehow.... Either that or you are a sock puppet account for someone else here that doesn't want to identify themselves.

 

[chayes]

I didnt see Mares and Dacor amongst the present list of attendees either, as very big global players, I would view their exit as a sign of no confidence in the show.

I tend to agree whole heartedly with mdb, the parties and various other activities are not enough to entice international visitors who have to make the enormous cost of getting there worthwhile.

It will be interesting to see all the INTERNATIONAL companies coming to DEMA and displacing the US or Italian based companies like Mares, Scubapro, Oceanic and others - especially international companies from places like China. These guys will be all over the DEMA show, bringing less expensive goods. If the manufacturers think they are in bad shape now, wait until the retailers find out that they can buy similar (or better) rubber goods, BCs and regulators at half the price directly from Taiwan. Bad idea to drop out of the show...companies are coming and they are willing to deal...retailers are ready to buy for the new year when the economy turns. The majors are going to be out of luck!!

 

[chayes]

chayes.... are you an employee of DEMA?

The reason I ask this is that you've never graced us with your presence on Scubaboard before....

You just joined today and somehow you imediately found this post and all 11 of your current posts are in this thread.


So I'm guessing it's possible that you are a DEMA employee or are associated with them somehow.... Either that or you are a sock puppet account for someone else here that doesn't want to identify themselves.

Nope...I just got sick of seeing all the people go off on organizations like DEMA, NAUI, PADI and the manufacturers ...when (from what I read) most that get on these things don't seem to know what they are talking about. But they sound really good So I joined Scuba Board, and here I am!

 

[widget]

It will be interesting to see all the INTERNATIONAL companies coming to DEMA and displacing the US or Italian based companies like Mares, Scubapro, Oceanic and others - especially international companies from places like China. These guys will be all over the DEMA show, bringing less expensive goods. If the manufacturers think they are in bad shape now, wait until the retailers find out that they can buy similar (or better) rubber goods, BCs and regulators at half the price directly from Taiwan. Bad idea to drop out of the show...companies are coming and they are willing to deal...retailers are ready to buy for the new year when the economy turns. The majors are going to be out of luck!!

Yes, I agree and disagree.

To be honest chayes, I think the USA domestic market is probably the last frontier for the big branded manufacturer, because the market is so big, the branded manufacturers (who support these Asian companies for their lines anyway) have managed through economies of purchasing power and exclusivity agreements to keep the " Asian house product" relitively limited in their domestic market.

As an example, in November I was at a Chinese boot manufacturer, a very big USA based brand had an order in production of 36000 NAME BRANDED dive boots which were rolling off the lines - these are just generic boots that are available to any other buyer - as long as the end destination was not the USA.

These Chinese manufacturers will never dare enter the USA market (let alone exhibit) with their own brand as they stand to loose the big brands orders.

That said there are others who dont have present business with the brands and will do all they can to get some of the USA based market and probably in time will exhibit at Dema.

Brands like Saekodive, Unidive, IST, Aropec, Sheico etc have exhibited at Dema for years, however their big business in the USA is from OEM REBRANDED business, whereas in the rest of the world they virtually refuse to sell OEM, but much prefer to only sell product under their OWN NAME (Saekodive, Unidive etc) and fight hand to hand with the big name brands - usually winning on price.!

I dont mean this to divert attention from the OP, and I guess what I am really saying in a long winded way, is that the big USA based brands have a tremendous financial hold over the Asian Manufacturers and I just dont see the Chinese manufacturers risking steady business by rushing to buy up Dema space just yet.

..............but I have been wrong before.! (and I apologise if others may see this as a hijack of the thread, it was not my intention.)

 

[cerich]

Term limits...so, rather than allow members to decide for themselves when someone should be voted on (or off) you'd rather have DEMA dictate it?? For all the bashing that DEMA gets, do you really want the Association deciding when someone can and cannot run for the Board? By the way, that member vote for changing the bylaws was put up on their website, and it passed by 25 votes...if some of the lazy and complaining members had gotten off their butts and voted, it never would have happened. I guess maybe you're right...the members are not capable of making the effort to decide for themselves.

Your comments are a Trojan horse, the members do NOT get a vote when in fact it is "pay to play" with voting blocks determined by size of dues paid. It is "Pay to Play" at its worse.

Regarding the web sit, at first DEMA asked for comments, they were OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of keeping term limits, once they saw that backfired they "put it to vote" knowing they could carry the vote ONLY because of the way the votes are structured.

The MAJORITY of members voted against changing.

 

[cerich]

Its a good idea to be there. And yeah, DEMA is relevant for certain. No one else is even attempting the kind of sophisticated marketing campaign for the industry that DEMA is doing. Go look at their Be A Diver campaign (go on dema.org and scroll down the home page to the links).

Chayes, I disagree with your view on the sophistication of Be A Diver.

being at DEMA as an exhibitor....hmmm I want more bang for my buck. I want a trade show where the majority of my customer base (the LDS) WANTS to attend, I want a venue that seeks to maximize the value for the exhibitors and members. I want there to be consumer days.

 

[cerich]

Actually they post their audited numbers for the show every year...some years they are up, others they are down...but the general numbers don't mean much. 2004 was an off year for attendance numbers, but I remember that only the REAL buyers were there, not the instructors and divemasters that didn't think Houston was glamorous enough a city in which to do business (never mind that the Super Bowl was there that year)...numbers are not important...its the business done there that's important. In 2004 there was LOTS of business done. The attendance figures are just window dressing to uninitiated. Look for the BUYER numbers and ask if business was done. That's the only true measure.

BS, I was a rep for a MAJOR at the time and was there, there was hardly anything done at Houston other than catching up with old friends.

Buyer numbers mean nothing, sales numbers count.

Speaking of I want to address another of your earlier comments, you spoke of DUI as selling to the public, let me correct you. DEMA has assured the membership on multiple occasion that admission to the show is strict and well regulated. Thus by definition anybody on the show floor with other than a MEDIA badge is a DIVE Industry "insider", that is who DUI (and some others) are selling to. If the people you see DUI selling to piss you off because you don't consider them worthy, blame DEMA, not DUI, you see DEMA lets them in....

 

[The Chairman]

So I joined Scuba Board, and here I am!

You are MORE than welcome here! We need to have more than one side presented!

But really, what if she WAS a DEMA employee? I would LOVE to have them address some of these issues. I have yet to see a DEMA "Be a Diver" commercial outside of DEMA! In fact, my whole point is that broadcast media is not considered "sophisticated" in today's information-based economy! Consider this my impassioned invitation for Tom or any of the DEMA Board Members to jump into this conversation and help us out!

The real trenches in the battle for the consumer are RIGHT HERE on the internet. Social media is being given the same treatment the dive industry gave internet presence for years. DEMA should be on this and other forums, COMMUNICATING what they are about and why. BTW, I agree with you especially on this statement:

. I just think the industry has a totally wrong impression of what DEMA does.

But then we have to ask "WHY???" Our PR team, aka DEMA is having a hard time being understood by the people it seeks to represent. That's a major disconnect in my mind. Why aren't they HERE and on other forums/social media helping us to understand their mission and their approach to that mission? I don't think it's because they are TOO sophisticated. Rather, I feel that they are afraid that the internet as a whole as completely eroded their relevance. It's time for them to re-invent DEMA and help it to become a real FORCE in the Information Age.

BTW, I have given new breath AND equality to the LDS right here on ScubaBoard! Registration is free and we encourage them to post in their local Marketplace right here on good ol' SB. Now the LDS doesn't have to worry about spending big bucks to reach the masses: they can do it right here!