palmm
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i thought that deep diving was covered in aow, seems like another way to get money out of you.
difference between deep diver and aow
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pollywogg
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Yes, if you are talking about PADI, you can rest assured that it is just another way to get your money.
AFAIK Deep dive is not required for PADI AOW to accomodate the resorts where they don't have the depth. This might just be gossip so please correct me if I am wrong. Regardless it is a single dive and you may be required to perform some tests to demonstrate the effects of narcossis.
I would look at at EANX and Adv EANX as a better choice for actually developing your dive skills, again depending on the agency YMMV
I would look at at EANX and Adv EANX as a better choice for actually developing your dive skills, again depending on the agency YMMV
The deep dive required in AOW is to give you an experience doing it under supervision.
It does not make you an expert.The only thing that gives you more expertise is to go diving. You should have experienced how much faster you air is used,buoyancy changes during descent and more important ascent,and any possible susceptibilty to narcosis(possible to happen at the recreational depth used for advance,but usually unlikely). The "advance" course does not make you an advanced diver,only time and experience does.
The comment about "way to get money out of you"upsets me.If you truly think that then either your instuctor did not explain what the advance course is or you did not pay attention to him/her.What did you expect for a course that had only 5 dives covering multiple experiences? What did it cost you? Probably works out to less than $10. per hour for the instructor.If you truly feel that you learned/experienced nothing out of the course tell the instructor and see what he/she says.If I had a student tell me they gained absolutely nothing from the course I would refund them their money for the course.They can then go elsewhere for the certification card,as I would not issue them one,because to my thinking if they say that they did not learn anything then they did not earn the card.They either did not pay attention,or put no effort into the course itself.
In areas where there is limited visibility the most valuable skills you can learn in the advance course is navigation.Going deep in the recreational limits is really no big deal if your other skills(buoyancy as an example) is up to where it should be.For people with limited skill ability completing the advance course gives them much added confidence and refinement of skills they have.
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AOW is intended to provide you with an introduction to a number of different environments ... deep being one of them. And although by far the main reason why people take AOW is to get the card that lets them go deeper, the material taught in AOW doesn't really provide you with an adequate level of knowledge or exposure to be a self-sufficient deep diver.
In the standard agency scheme of things, AOW is supposed to be a "window" toward various specialties ... something to give you enough of a taste to decide whether it's something you want to explore further.
The deep specialty goes more in-depth in the planning and preparation aspects, and gives you multiple dives (as compared to a single dive in AOW) in a deeper environment in which to gain the experience you need to plan and execute deeper dives on your own.
There's nothing wrong with paying more money for more training and knowledge ... as long as you walk away from the class feeling like you got what you paid for. That will be determined less by the agency than it will the instructor's efforts to teach ... and your efforts to learn.
That's pretty well uncalled for ... and the sort of bluster that suggests an ignorance of the topic under discussion.
Whether you're talking PADI or any other agency, there are valid reasons why someone would want to take a deep specialty after AOW. I'm a NAUI instructor and teach both ... often to the same students. Yes, I'm taking their money for both classes ... and I'm providing a service for those classes.
FWIW - it isn't the agency that's taking your money, it's the instructor. Find one that will teach you what you want to learn effectively, and don't pay much attention to which agency he or she is teaching for.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
A deep dive is required for PADI AOW..Dive to be conducted between 60'-100'..
You are NOT required to perform "tests" to demonstrate effect of narcosis.
You should be able to control descent rate easily and more important ascent rate.You will see an example of color change at depth.This is per latest standards changes.
EANX/ADV EANX has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with developing your actual in water diving skills.Most if not all agencies do not even required any actual dives for their inital nitrox certification beyond your 4 ow training dives required for ow certification Only way to develop dive skills is to GO DIVING.
As mentioned, the AOW gives you an introduction to deeper diving, while the specialty covers diving deep air in more detail. Like any course, some are taught to the minimum standards and others greatly surpass them. In-part this depends upon the certification agency and the instructor's preference. I suggest that you talk with the particular instructor about his/her program and what it entails and decide if this program will give you what you are seeking. Good luck with your journey!
Wayne
Wayne
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In both cases, my class is a bit more rigorous than some ... but I'll describe the difference and perhaps it'll give you an idea.
In my AOW class, before we go deep we cover some basic gas management topics ... we take some gas consumption measurements. Then I hand the students a dive plan to 100 feet, and have them calculate how much gas they'll need to do that dive. Once we've determined that they are adequately prepared, we do the dive. The students are responsible for following the dive plan. What I want to see is how well they can pay attention to what they are doing under the effects of narcosis. At some point during the deeper portions of the dive, I will signal them that I am out of air ... I want to see how they react to a simulated emergency (they know in advance that I will be doing this, but not at what point in the dive). At the end of the dive we debrief how well they followed the dive plan, discuss the reasons for any deviations, we calculate how much gas they actually used, compare it to what they had calculated they would need, and discuss the reasons for any deviations. We talk about what I saw, what they felt, and what they can do to improve on any weaknesses either I or they identified.
In the Deep Dive specialty we get further into the mechanics of narcosis, DCI, CO2 retention, and how to manage each. We get further into planning and preparing for deeper dives, including the use of redundant gas supplies. There are four dives, going progressively deeper from 100 to 120 feet, and the students are completely responsible for the planning and preparation of these dives ... I'm in the loop to observe and to make sure they don't neglect anything important. The students are responsible for making their own dive plan, conducting the dive following the plan, and dealing with any "emergencies" that occur at depth. I'm along to supervise and make sure that simulations are conducted in a way that don't lead to real emergencies. As with the AOW deep dive, there's a thorough debrief after each dive, but the students are primarily responsible for debriefing each other as to how the dive went, and any deviations from the plan get thoroughly discussed (what happened, what they did about it and why). During the dives, I will have each student perform a gas switch to a redundant air supply ... either their own or one I provide.
At the end of the Deep Diver specialty, I can hand the student a card with my signature on it that says I am confident they have the skills and knowledge to competently plan and execute a deep dive within recreational depths and NDL's.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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