difference between deep diver and aow

[TechBlue]

A deep dive is required for PADI AOW..Dive to be conducted between 60'-100'..
You are NOT required to perform "tests" to demonstrate effect of narcosis.
You should be able to control descent rate easily and more important ascent rate.You will see an example of color change at depth.This is per latest standards changes.
EANX/ADV EANX has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with developing your actual in water diving skills.Most if not all agencies do not even required any actual dives for their inital nitrox certification beyond your 4 ow training dives required for ow certification Only way to develop dive skills is to GO DIVING.

Are you sure about that? I beg to differ not all agencies have adopted the internet as a means to provide certifications and ADV EANX will most definitely teach you a lot about deeper diving, and decompression as opposed to an AOW single "deep" dive which according to what you are saying is simply a formality. Nice to know that the focus is on the color spectrum again I suppose this has nothing to do with where you actually may end up diving but you do have the cert.

 

[pollywogg]

That's pretty well uncalled for ... and the sort of bluster that suggests an ignorance of the topic under discussion.

Whether you're talking PADI or any other agency, there are valid reasons why someone would want to take a deep specialty after AOW. I'm a NAUI instructor and teach both ... often to the same students. Yes, I'm taking their money for both classes ... and I'm providing a service for those classes.

FWIW - it isn't the agency that's taking your money, it's the instructor. Find one that will teach you what you want to learn effectively, and don't pay much attention to which agency he or she is teaching for.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob....
it was a joke. Lighten the hell up. ;-) I'm ignorant, and you can't take a joke without getting riled up. Agreed? Ok, let's move on....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob....
it was a joke. Lighten the hell up. ;-)

Hmmm ... we've got ongoing discussions in other threads about agency-bashing, and I've expressed my views on the topic there. I don't see the "joke" as particularly funny.

The OP asked a good questoin ... it deserves a reasonable answer. That answer has nothing to do with PADI or any other specific agency. Let's stick to the topic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver Tim]

Bob....
it was a joke. Lighten the hell up. ;-) I'm ignorant, and you can't take a joke without getting riled up. Agreed? Ok, let's move on....

Sorry; I couldn't hear your tone of voice, see your facial expression or pick up any other non-verbal cues while reading your post, so maybe you can forgive me for missing the humorous intent.

So, let's say I'm a newly PADI-certified diver, and I'm considering furthering my diving experience/education. I see a thread on ScubaBoard about AOW/Deep Diver classes, and I'm interested, since I'm considering both at some point in my future. The first response I read is what certainly sounds like a direct shot at the agency I trained through. Does that make me 1) more likely to continue reading ScubaBoard threads, where I can find some outstanding resources to help me become a safer diver, or 2) less likely to continue reading ScubaBoard threads, where I can find some outstanding resources to help me become a safer diver? OK, let's move on... but let's also think about how what we post is likely to be interpreted.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

AFAIK Deep dive is not required for PADI AOW to accomodate the resorts where they don't have the depth. This might just be gossip so please correct me if I am wrong. Regardless it is a single dive and you may be required to perform some tests to demonstrate the effects of narcossis.

Pretty revealing that a Tech Instructor with over a thousand posts and SB membership since '03 could type "AFAIK Deep dive is not required for PADI AOW to accommodate the resorts where they don't have the depth." Sure, the request for correction possibly makes it PC enough, for a beginning OW diver's post, but considering the source of this "slam" it seems there is some bashing going on here as well.

A quick search of something like "Advanced Open Water Deep" and less than 15 minutes of reading should not be too much to ask of our very web and scuba experienced senior members. :mooner:

Defining the PADI AOW Deep Dive as between 60' and 100' is a bone of contention among learned debaters. Perhaps it would be enlightening to hear what other agencies require with regards to AOW, Deep Dives and required depths.

 

[pollywogg]

Wow...Tim, Bob, from now on, I will make sure that all of my posts meet your exacting standards. I will make sure that they are completely devoid of humor, because lord knows I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that anyone on Scubaboard has a sense of humor. Please don't try to tell me that a joking post in response to a question posed in (what seemed to me) a tongue-in-cheek manner in the Advanced forum is enough to turn divers away. I did not post this in the new divers or basic diving section, where it MIGHT sway a new divers feelings towards their agency.
While we are on the topic, though, let's stop dancing around this. It is well known that PADI focuses primarily on money. We have all heard enough stories about instructor candidates getting gigged for not merchandising well enough. Or seen that PADI's Master Diver cert is merely a pretty trophy with no additional training. While the quality of training you receive from any agency is primarily up to the instructor, the sales pitches are determined by the Agency. My NAUI instructor was a wealth of knowledge as far as gear goes, but he never approached a sales pitch. I have sat in on 2 PADI OW classes (all of the class time, and most of the water exercises, mainly out of curiosity), and the push to sell gear is disgusting. The move completely away from tables and wholly into computers is just another symptom of their push for sales.
If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to. This is my opinion. If you want to try to villainize or insult me for stating my opinion, that's fine too. This is the great thing about free speech. I'd be happy to discuss differences of opinion. But it's hard to hear you from up there. You'll have to get off your high horses first.

 

[fnfalman]

Sorry; I couldn't hear your tone of voice, see your facial expression or pick up any other non-verbal cues while reading your post, so maybe you can forgive me for missing the humorous intent.

So, let's say I'm a newly PADI-certified diver, and I'm considering furthering my diving experience/education. I see a thread on ScubaBoard about AOW/Deep Diver classes, and I'm interested, since I'm considering both at some point in my future. The first response I read is what certainly sounds like a direct shot at the agency I trained through. Does that make me 1) more likely to continue reading ScubaBoard threads, where I can find some outstanding resources to help me become a safer diver, or 2) less likely to continue reading ScubaBoard threads, where I can find some outstanding resources to help me become a safer diver? OK, let's move on... but let's also think about how what we post is likely to be interpreted.

You can either get turned off or grow some thick skins and see why many experienced divers are down on PADI as a whole.

I'm PADI OW/AOW/Nitrox and I think that PADI suck. My rescue class is with NAUI, as are my upcoming tech classes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Wow...Tim, Bob, from now on, I will make sure that all of my posts meet your exacting standards. I will make sure that they are completely devoid of humor, because lord knows I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that anyone on Scubaboard has a sense of humor. Please don't try to tell me that a joking post in response to a question posed in (what seemed to me) a tongue-in-cheek manner in the Advanced forum is enough to turn divers away.

... or you could use a like everybody else does.

How else am I supposed to know that's a joke when I can read the same stupid comment on ScubaBoard at least a half-dozen times a day from people who aren't joking?

I did not post this in the new divers or basic diving section, where it MIGHT sway a new divers feelings towards their agency.

Lots of SB users who are not new or basic divers are getting a bit tired of hearing the same old "joke" ... particularly from people who are basing it on their experiences with a single instructor or are only repeating something they read on ScubaBoard.

While we are on the topic, though, let's stop dancing around this. It is well known that PADI focuses primarily on money.

I see ... so you weren't joking after all ...

We have all heard enough stories about instructor candidates getting gigged for not merchandising well enough.

Uh huh ... so you've "heard stories" ... and that somehow makes you an expert.

Hate to break it to ya, but when I became a NAUI instructor I got the same pitch from my course director about "supporting your dive shop" by pitching sales in classes. That's one of the primary reasons I chose to teach as an independent instructor.

PADI ain't the only agency that takes that approach. They're not even the worst. Did you know that you can't even become an SSI instructor without first declaring your loyalty to a local dive shop? Contemplate the reasons for that for a moment or two and get back to me ...

Or seen that PADI's Master Diver cert is merely a pretty trophy with no additional training.

I happen to agree with you that the PADI Master Diver cert is nothing but marketing ... but it's a bit off-topic, and has been flogged to death elsewhere.

While the quality of training you receive from any agency is primarily up to the instructor, the sales pitches are determined by the Agency.

Actually, they're determined by the LDS.

My NAUI instructor was a wealth of knowledge as far as gear goes, but he never approached a sales pitch. I have sat in on 2 PADI OW classes (all of the class time, and most of the water exercises, mainly out of curiosity), and the push to sell gear is disgusting. The move completely away from tables and wholly into computers is just another symptom of their push for sales.

Well then ... you should complain even more loudly about SSI ... they were the first to move away from tables and wholly into computers. And although I don't agree with them, I can at least understand the reasons why they did it.

If you don't agree, that's fine, you don't have to. This is my opinion.

You're welcome to your opinion ... it'd be nice if you stated it as opinion, however.

If you want to try to villainize or insult me for stating my opinion, that's fine too.

Actually, I wasn't villianizing you ... whatever that means ... I was asking you not to open up the PADI-bashing rathole in this thread ... I don't recall seeing any mention of any specific agency in the OP ... and frankly, PADI isn't the only agency who offers both AOW and specialty classes.

There's plenty of places on ScubaBoard where you can go crawl down that rathole if it's what floats your boat. And you can see from fnfalman's reply that there will always be those who are happy to crawl down it with you. We really don't need to turn every thread on ScubaBoard into someone's opportunity to bash PADI.

This is the great thing about free speech.

Suggest you learn what "free speech" means ... it has nothing to do with a privately-owned Internet forum.

I'd be happy to discuss differences of opinion. But it's hard to hear you from up there. You'll have to get off your high horses first.

And I'd be happy to discuss differences of opinion with you ... just pick a more appropriate place to do it. Go start a thread in Whine and Cheeze ... call it "PADI sucks" or some such ... I'll drop by and we can discuss differences of opinion.

In the appropriate place, you might find our differences of opinion aren't as great as you think they are ... I just don't think this is the place to talk about agencies.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DCBC]

Yes, if you are talking about PADI, you can rest assured that it is just another way to get your money.

In all fairness, this was in response to a post by palmm: "i thought that deep diving was covered in aow, seems like another way to get money out of you."

I don't think that Pollywogg was "Agency bashing," as he was either joking or just expressing his opinion on the statement of another. We might choose to agree with it or disagree with it, but he has the right to express it. We should also keep in-mind that this is the advanced scuba discussion area.

The OP's question was the difference between deep diver and AOW. We all know that any certification is Agency dependent, so discussing Agency differences are part of the discussion and I believe are on-topic. Each agency has its particular training philosophy; some focus on profit and as Bob has mentioned, PADI is not the only one that does this.

I believe there is a difference between making a negative comment about an Agency that in the poster's mind is truthful, and that of "Agency bashing." Many on SB seem to overreact when it comes to "Agency bashing," but often turn a blind eye to comments made about "Poodle Jackets or Spare Air."

Although I could post negative comments about PADI, I agree with Bob that it would be inappropriate here. By the same token PADI has contributed greatly to recreational diving and has some of the best quality control in the industry. Like all agencies, none of them are perfect.

I think we must be cautious on a discussion board to say what opinions are unacceptable and what are self-expression. If we take away the latter, all we will have is a bunch of people saying the same things to each other. Not very stimulating.

 

[aku321]

I like to dive deep. What was this thread about again? Bashing something......?