Difference between OW and AOW

[Mustard Dave]

PPB & DSMB mandatory dives? Why?

Personally I have never taught a PPB course. I work with students during their OW courses so that by the time they have finished and been signed off, their buoyancy is pretty sorted. I am not arrogant enough to say they are perfect, but they don't need another course on it, let alone an adventure dive.

DSMB as a course? Not sure I even agree with it being a distinctive. Here's an idea, cover it during a drift, or deep, or wreck or any dive.

Buoyancy is a hugely important aspect of diving and although you should have mastered it on the OW course (if you can do the hover and fin-pivot you should be able to crack it), it is still one of the skills many new divers seem to be lacking in. Before you can be described as 'advanced' you should have to have it well and truly nailed.

I don't think DSMB should be a course and didn't say it should. I said AOW should be taught as a proper course rather than a series of 'experience dives' that the candidate can pick and choose from a list. DSMB is just one of the elements that again you should have mastered before holding an 'advanced' card. I carry a DSMB on every dive and believe every diver should too. It amazes me that there are DMs (so-called 'professionals') and even instructors that have not yet mastered this important and possibly life saving skill.

As you say, DSMB launches can be covered on some adventure dives but unless it is a mandatory requirement, most instructors will not bother. If you think what a novice OW diver has to learn (equipment set-up, breathing skills, air share drills, buoyancy, problem management, dive planning, environmental considerations, navigation and more), introducing more skills than the AOW currently covers should not be to much for an 'Advanced' Open Water diver to take in. If PADI include more of these skills on the AOW course though, it's fewer speciality courses that they can sell.

 

[Simon-]

Buoyancy is a hugely important aspect of diving and although you should have mastered it on the OW course (if you can do the hover and fin-pivot you should be able to crack it), it is still one of the skills many new divers seem to be lacking in. Before you can be described as 'advanced' you should have to have it well and truly nailed.

I don't think DSMB should be a course and didn't say it should. I said AOW should be taught as a proper course rather than a series of 'experience dives' that the candidate can pick and choose from a list. DSMB is just one of the elements that again you should have mastered before holding an 'advanced' card. I carry a DSMB on every dive and believe every diver should too. It amazes me that there are DMs (so-called 'professionals') and even instructors that have not yet mastered this important and possibly life saving skill.

As you say, DSMB launches can be covered on some adventure dives but unless it is a mandatory requirement, most instructors will not bother. If you think what a novice OW diver has to learn (equipment set-up, breathing skills, air share drills, buoyancy, problem management, dive planning, environmental considerations, navigation and more), introducing more skills than the AOW currently covers should not be to much for an 'Advanced' Open Water diver to take in. If PADI include more of these skills on the AOW course though, it's fewer speciality courses that they can sell.

Mastery-

performing the skill so it meets the stated performance requirements in a reasonably comfortable, fluid, repeatable manner as would be expected of a diver at that certification level.

 

[caddokid]

I would like to add a newbie's prospective to this by saying that since I received my ow certification, I have done 10 or so dives and now and only now am comfortable doing the skills presented in the ow on my own. I personally believe that for most new divers taking the AOW cert might be a bit overwhelming until they truly have gotten the basic skills down.

 

[Dhboner]

Advanced Open Water is really just a few additional guided dives. It's probably a worthwhile program if you are still a little unsure about the sport or do not have any local mentors to keep you on track.

I just wish PADI would change the name...you are NOT an advanced diver after taking this program. You are still a very inexperienced diver with another C-Card in your wallet. However there are quite a few charters who insist you have your Advanced Open Water to dive with them no matter how many dives in your log book.

 

[boulderjohn]

Buoyancy is a hugely important aspect of diving and although you should have mastered it on the OW course (if you can do the hover and fin-pivot you should be able to crack it), it is still one of the skills many new divers seem to be lacking in. Before you can be described as 'advanced' you should have to have it well and truly nailed.

I thought I had buoyancy nailed when I finished OW. When I did AOW, I realized I had farther to go. When I had about 70 dives, I thought, wow, I really have buoyancy mastered. After I had been an instructor for a while I realized how bad I was at 70 dives and felt really good about my mastery of buoyancy at that time. When I began my technical diving training I realized how much my buoyancy sucked and worked hard on it. Then I started my cave training and really started to get somewhere with my buoyancy. Then I was injured and had to stop diving for a while. When I resumed and had to hold decompression stops in current at 15 feet for 20 minutes or more, I realized how badly my skills had eroded over time and how hard I had to work to get the feel for it again.

No one has buoyancy truly mastered at the end of OW. The standard calls for mastery as would be expected at that certification level.

DSMB is just one of the elements that again you should have mastered before holding an 'advanced' card. I carry a DSMB on every dive and believe every diver should too. It amazes me that there are DMs (so-called 'professionals') and even instructors that have not yet mastered this important and possibly life saving skill.

Deploying a DSMB is a relatively new concept for recreational diving. I always carry one, and I teach the skill. However, in all my dives in locations all over the world, I have never seen a recreational diver deploy a DSMB. I myself have never deployed one on a recreational dive except for practice purposes.

 

[dbulmer]

John,

In the UK the ability to deploy a DSMB is standard operating procedure for all divers on boats and I carry 2.

The tech/rec divide is less apparent here and I'm just a recreational bloke ... ish

 

[fjpatrum]

Deploying a DSMB is a relatively new concept for recreational diving. I always carry one, and I teach the skill. However, in all my dives in locations all over the world, I have never seen a recreational diver deploy a DSMB. I myself have never deployed one on a recreational dive except for practice purposes.

I find that shocking. I'm not doubting you, I just find it surprising. I'm a newb with less than 30 dives and when I went to Florida this spring and dived West Palm Springs and Jupiter, both boats expected you to pop a tube. Maybe they intended for you to only do a surface marker rather than deploying from depth, I'm not sure. I attempted ( almost successfully) to deploy mine from safety stop depth so I could get practice. There were quite a few other rec divers doing similarly.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Advanced Open Water is really just a few additional guided dives.

That depends entirely on who's teaching the class. If you were to sign up for my AOW class expecting just a few guided dives, you'd be in for a major surprise ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added November 30th, 2012 at 11:58 AM ----------

Deploying a DSMB is a relatively new concept for recreational diving. I always carry one, and I teach the skill. However, in all my dives in locations all over the world, I have never seen a recreational diver deploy a DSMB. I myself have never deployed one on a recreational dive except for practice purposes.

I use a DSMB regularly when I'm boat diving ... particularly on dives where we've got current and may drift away during the ascent.

I deployed mine in Cozumel once after signaling the dive guide that I wanted to surface and he didn't respond. He seemed shocked, for some reason.

In the Maldives, DSMB deployment was standard procedure ... I used mine on almost every dive.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I find that shocking. I'm not doubting you, I just find it surprising. I'm a newb with less than 30 dives and when I went to Florida this spring and dived West Palm Springs and Jupiter, both boats expected you to pop a tube. Maybe they intended for you to only do a surface marker rather than deploying from depth, I'm not sure. I attempted ( almost successfully) to deploy mine from safety stop depth so I could get practice. There were quite a few other rec divers doing similarly.

Marker buoys are required in that area, but it has always been in my experience a float carried throughout the dive rather than one deployed at the end of the dive. I have deployed DSMBs in south Florida for practice purposes, but I always told the crew ahead of time that I was going to do it so they wouldn't be confused by the additional marker.

 

[spc751]

Advanced Open Water is really just a few additional guided dives. It's probably a worthwhile program if you are still a little unsure about the sport or do not have any local mentors to keep you on track.

I just wish PADI would change the name...you are NOT an advanced diver after taking this program. You are still a very inexperienced diver with another C-Card in your wallet. However there are quite a few charters who insist you have your Advanced Open Water to dive with them no matter how many dives in your log book.

My PADI AOW card does not say I am an ADVANCED diver it says I am an advanced OPEN WATER diver.