Discover scuba safety ratios of student to instructor
- Thread starter Jim Lapenta
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I've only ever conducted them in a pool. I'll only ever conduct them in a pool. (Not that there's any suitable open water available here in NJ anyway.)
Four works, depending on the four. Typically you can start them all four together in the shallow end with the skills. Then escort them on a swim one at a time. If comfortable that they are each doing OK they can buddy up and swim in escorted pairs. If they're still all doing well we can play some buoyancy games in the deep end. Never more than a fin kick away, never less than 25yds of vis. Or however large the pool is. (Some people's pools are even larger than that!)
Four works, depending on the four. Typically you can start them all four together in the shallow end with the skills. Then escort them on a swim one at a time. If comfortable that they are each doing OK they can buddy up and swim in escorted pairs. If they're still all doing well we can play some buoyancy games in the deep end. Never more than a fin kick away, never less than 25yds of vis. Or however large the pool is. (Some people's pools are even larger than that!)
BDSC
Contributor
My wife did a Discover Scuba dive at CCV in Roatan. If I remember right, the instructor gave her some literature to go over the day before, they went over that the next day, did some shallow water exercises, and then did a dive to about 25 ft I think. It was a one to one ratio. She he loved the experience and returned home to get certified.
There is no doubt in my mind that these courses can be done safely with the right instructor and student, even in an open water environment.
Excuse my poor memory (its been > 10 years since I got my OW), but what do the PADI training standards say about the 1st OW dive? And what is the basic difference between this an a DSD ?
I am not sure what you are asking. Let me take a stab at it.
The first OW dive is actually similar to a Discover Scuba program. The confined water requirements are about the same in both. The new open water requirements are a little different, but an adjustment can be made. In fact, it is possible to count a DSD toward the OW course:
Manual Page 35:
Discover Scuba Diving to Open Water Diver Course
If you (the instructor) conduct and ensure that participants
master Open Water Diver course Confined Water Dive 1 skills
during the Discover Scuba Diving program, participants are
eligible for Confined Water Dive 1 credit.
If you (the instructor) goes on to brief and conduct Open
Water Dive 1 with the participants who have mastered
Confined Water Dive 1 skills, they are eligible to get credit for
completing Open Water Dive 1.
This means that it has to be an instructor, not a specially trained DM teaching the class. It also means the students must go through the full requirements of the OW class, some of which are skimped on in a pool only class. For example, if you are going one on one with a student in a pool, you aren't likely to make sure the student masters both methods of regulator recovery. let's face it--it's not going to be a necessary skill then. If, on the other hand, you know the student may want to count the experience toward OW, then you would make sure it meets the requirements.
I have experienced PADI Discover dives 3X.
The first was in the '95 on St Thomas, after I had not dived in several years. The op laughed at the remains of my tattered 1970 Y card, and asked me to jump into the pool with his next resort Discover class, so they could review my skills. He told me that if their instructor was satisfied (they were) I would be free to book dives with them.
I really do not recall focusing on the size of the class, or the ratio, but in the pool it was something like 1:4 or maybe even 1:6. NOT counting myself, if I remember.
I was not diving with that Discover group when they hit the ocean, so I have no idea what their ratio was in open water.
My next two experiences with Discover dives were as an observer.
The first, my GF did one in Cancun (not a particularly safe, or confidence building experience for her, even at 1:1).
I was not very impressed at all with the dive op in Cancun.
My third and last experience was when Colleen's grandchildren did a Discover tgether in Key Largo, a couple years ago. Again, I was shadowing the team the whole time, as an observer, and it was 1:2 ratio, with a very good Instructor. I was quite impressed by the level of attention and skill she had with the children, but as with my own two children when they did their own OW and AOW, I was always nearby, acting as an extra pair of eyes.
My observation: although I have seen the 1:2 ratio work, a part of me was always asking, what does the Instructor do if there is a major problem with Both divers, and they separate?
With safety, it is not the every day routines that you have to consider, but the potential extremes, and I do not believe that anything except the 1:1 as truly safe if you are Discover diving in open water. And THAT only if you have a very, very good instructor.
My opinion, only, of course, and I am neither a DM nor an Instructor.
The first was in the '95 on St Thomas, after I had not dived in several years. The op laughed at the remains of my tattered 1970 Y card, and asked me to jump into the pool with his next resort Discover class, so they could review my skills. He told me that if their instructor was satisfied (they were) I would be free to book dives with them.
I really do not recall focusing on the size of the class, or the ratio, but in the pool it was something like 1:4 or maybe even 1:6. NOT counting myself, if I remember.
I was not diving with that Discover group when they hit the ocean, so I have no idea what their ratio was in open water.
My next two experiences with Discover dives were as an observer.
The first, my GF did one in Cancun (not a particularly safe, or confidence building experience for her, even at 1:1).
I was not very impressed at all with the dive op in Cancun.
My third and last experience was when Colleen's grandchildren did a Discover tgether in Key Largo, a couple years ago. Again, I was shadowing the team the whole time, as an observer, and it was 1:2 ratio, with a very good Instructor. I was quite impressed by the level of attention and skill she had with the children, but as with my own two children when they did their own OW and AOW, I was always nearby, acting as an extra pair of eyes.
My observation: although I have seen the 1:2 ratio work, a part of me was always asking, what does the Instructor do if there is a major problem with Both divers, and they separate?
With safety, it is not the every day routines that you have to consider, but the potential extremes, and I do not believe that anything except the 1:1 as truly safe if you are Discover diving in open water. And THAT only if you have a very, very good instructor.
My opinion, only, of course, and I am neither a DM nor an Instructor.
I have done a number of DSDs in the pool, and I really enjoy doing them. It's amazing to me how well most people do at getting neutral and finding out a little of what makes diving such great fun.
On the other hand, I come out of virtually every OW Dive 1 swearing I will never, EVER do it again . . . Even with four nights of pool preparation, people are completely stressed out and incompetent, making the transition from warm clear water and no exposure protection, to Puget Sound.
Now, admittedly, someplace like the Red Sea, where we had 84 degree water temperatures and virtually unlimited visibility, would be quite different. But being responsible for more than one person who has no idea what he is doing would terrify me, even in those conditions.
On the other hand, I come out of virtually every OW Dive 1 swearing I will never, EVER do it again . . . Even with four nights of pool preparation, people are completely stressed out and incompetent, making the transition from warm clear water and no exposure protection, to Puget Sound.
Now, admittedly, someplace like the Red Sea, where we had 84 degree water temperatures and virtually unlimited visibility, would be quite different. But being responsible for more than one person who has no idea what he is doing would terrify me, even in those conditions.
Thank you for deciphering my question. So the land briefing doesn't sound too different between a DSD and the first dive for OW. I took my OW in Bali in a 'confined' environment (Jemeluk Bay). Visibility was very good, Instructor + instructor trainee, only two in the class.
I recently got back from a dive trip in a foreign country, some friends of mine, did a discover scuba at a resort. there were 2 of them doing the discover scuba. I tagged along, to take some pics and video footage. the pool session was a bit of a joke... the instructor had 5 students total, and he was going over the skills portion very quickly, it seemed he had to be somewhere as he kept looking at his watch...
Anyway the entire pool session was less than 15 minutes. the students seemed to know the skills to an ok degree, but several asked a lot of questions, and he said they would discuss on the boat ride...
In the water
everyone got their BCD's on, fins, etc. and he "pushed" the new students into the water, the waves were mild, the depth was shallow 15-20' max.
Going down the line, 3 of the 5 had problems equalizing, he told them to return to the boat....
The other 2 were ok, and continued the dive. My 1 friend hung out on the line, trying to get equalized for about 5 minutes, @ 8-12', but then the current took her up, and she was only 1-2' deep, so no ear squeezing yet. She hung out on the line, while the instructor took the other 2 down to the bottom.
Then he came back up, tried taking the other 2 that really wanted to try again.. My other friend, got their ears equalized ok, and went down to the bottom with the others, while the instructor tried helping the other one equalize. After a few minutes, he surfaced suggested that she return to the boat, and she was fine with going back as she still had fun... despite not going deeper than 10'
In the water the instructor seemed to keep track of everyone, I was in the water also, keeping track of my friend, the other one I helped back into the boat...
All and all everyone made it back safe, but if something happened, i can't imagine, what 1 instructor would have done...
Anyway the entire pool session was less than 15 minutes. the students seemed to know the skills to an ok degree, but several asked a lot of questions, and he said they would discuss on the boat ride...
In the water
everyone got their BCD's on, fins, etc. and he "pushed" the new students into the water, the waves were mild, the depth was shallow 15-20' max.
Going down the line, 3 of the 5 had problems equalizing, he told them to return to the boat....
The other 2 were ok, and continued the dive. My 1 friend hung out on the line, trying to get equalized for about 5 minutes, @ 8-12', but then the current took her up, and she was only 1-2' deep, so no ear squeezing yet. She hung out on the line, while the instructor took the other 2 down to the bottom.
Then he came back up, tried taking the other 2 that really wanted to try again.. My other friend, got their ears equalized ok, and went down to the bottom with the others, while the instructor tried helping the other one equalize. After a few minutes, he surfaced suggested that she return to the boat, and she was fine with going back as she still had fun... despite not going deeper than 10'
In the water the instructor seemed to keep track of everyone, I was in the water also, keeping track of my friend, the other one I helped back into the boat...
All and all everyone made it back safe, but if something happened, i can't imagine, what 1 instructor would have done...
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