Dive Rite or Halcyon?

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strondbakken:
I think i might go with the Halcyon Eclipse (with the 40# lift wing), simply because of its simplicity and durability. Dive Rite is not a lesser brand by any means, but i think the halcyon will suit me a bit better in the long run. I thank you all for your input and hope to see you under the water sometime.....

Happy Diving! :viking:

If you have a local Halcyon dealer, try to negotiate a discount. I just went through this buying bp/w's for my wife and son and got a reasonable discount just for asking. It made the price differential insignificant.
 
nyresq:
Depending on the store and the brand, it's anywhere between 25% on smaller items to over 100% on larger items. Thats why dealer price lists are protected like nuclear weapons.... If you actually knew how much the markup was on some items you buy, you would call the dealer a thief and never buy from them again.
Why can liesurepro can sell so cheap?... they don't have to abide by any dealer agreements or price fixing, and they have a low overhead doing most of their business online and not having to pay a scuba tech to work on regs or anything like that...
What is your role in the scuba industry?

Ben
 
This is a good question that deserves answer longer than one or two lines. Sorry if this seems long but it may help.

This will be long----
First we have to clear up something,
a BCD of this type consists of 2 systems:
1) Harness
2) Wings
Next, I really believe that a back plate style BC is the way to train. When I say back plate style I mean plate and harness system. I know they look uncomfortable, and they are way more expensive then they need to be. But one has to look past all that and see the value and the performance that they offer. First off they are not comfortable while you’re on the surface. That is true, however what BC is, and they are no designed to be worn on the surface. They are the most secure platform for any type of diving. Once in the water the cylinder will not move, which is a good thing. The Transpac II seems more refined; it may be, but it is also overly engineered (Maybe its the way to go if you are diving side mount --but as I do not and most do not for that matter why use it). Why do they make it the way they do ---because the manufacture needs to sell them---they need to make them comfortable on the surface because that is where most people try them on and then buy them based on the feel of the BC on the surface. They need to look cool and have lots of bells and whistles! Not saying DiveRite is makes a bad product. In fact I think Dr has better Customer Service then anyone in th industary ---talk to Dyson--he will spend lots of time answering any questions.
Most people that buy BP’s already know the value of them, they don’t need to look cool or be comfortable on the surface. Most new divers do not even know about BP’s because they are not exposed to them until much later in the training process…

Back plates:
Now to me it doesn’t matter which manufacture you buy from--- Diverite and Halcyon both make fine back plates and you can even buy a harness from them----although you can easily make one for 20 bucks.

Wings (bladder):
This is something that is really important to some and not so important to others. Wings (Diverite Classic or RecWing, for which I have both) are really nice—however they have drawbacks. The classic will create more drag when diving with single cylinders because it is really made for double manifold cylinder diving (diving with “doubles”). The RecWing is more streamlined and better suited for single cylinder diving. However it has a bungee that is really not necessary. At any rate it can be taken off, but you would always have the loops sticking out of the bladder. The Halcyon setup is straight foreword, no nonsense, company. Halcyon menses no words when they say no BCD can do it all. They make the Pioneer and the Eclipse for single tank diving. They are both fine “wings” that are very low in drag, I prefer the Eclipse due to the fact that I can change out or fix the bladder. Something that will save you 300 bucks if you were to ever get a hole in the bladder. OMS is now making an “Eclipse” type knockoff; it actually looks pretty well made, but it does look as though OMS is playing catch up with Halcyon. For double tank diving Halcyon makes the Explorer, it’s basically the same as the Diverite Classic Wing.

Once you get to the point where you are ready to go onto “Doubles” all you will have to buy (BC wise) is a wing capable of lifting that much weight: Diverite Classic, or Halcyon Explorer. If you go with the Transpac II you will eventually get to the point (which I did) where you will outgrow the BC. You will never outgrow the Back Plate and Harness. Also as long as you stick with using the one-piece harness you will always be using the same set-up basically. You wont have to get used to a new type system, which may help you concentrate on the details of using doubles.

So to answer your question I would go with the Back plate design with a one-piece harness (3 or 4 “D” rings and a SS Buckle), a low profile “wing” such as Halcyon Eclipse or Pioneer. This system will be the simplest and most adaptable BCD system you can buy.
 
nyresq:
Depending on the store and the brand, it's anywhere between 25% on smaller items to over 100% on larger items. Thats why dealer price lists are protected like nuclear weapons.... If you actually knew how much the markup was on some items you buy, you would call the dealer a thief and never buy from them again.
Why can liesurepro can sell so cheap?... they don't have to abide by any dealer agreements or price fixing, and they have a low overhead doing most of their business online and not having to pay a scuba tech to work on regs or anything like that...

As someone who knows what it takes to set up an online business, you still have the fulfillment problem to deal with. An internet site the size of LeisurePro has quite a few people grabbing gear off the shelves, packing it up, and making sure the paperwork is complete. Their overhead may not be in compressors and such as that, but they do have a warehouse and lots of people, and in NYC that's not cheap.

But the fact remains that they don't have dealer agreements with the major manufacturers. Companies like DiveRite Express DO have the dealer agreements. At some point I believe that the manufacturers will have to address the online paradigm. Mares already honors the warranty, IF you buy it online from an authorized dealer or if you walk in the street to an authorized dealer. If they have figured it out, so can others.

I work in the Internet world as my primary job. I have bought more stuff than I can remember online. But when it comes to my scuba gear, I treat it like clothes and such. At 6'6" and 280 lbs, I have to try on EXACTLY what I am purchasing. I want to touch, smell, and hear what I am getting.

Just my .02 ...

Randy
 
Sorry but I dont see what all this has to do with BCD's... Lets try to keep it on track. This subject will never be settled here or on any other board. I feel this would be better suited for discussion on the Instructors only or Professionals only board.

JMHO---sick of the trolls, that derail honest questions. No where in this mans question did money ever come up. So lets just be nice.

Later~
 
JPBECK:
Sorry but I dont see what all this has to do with BCD's... Lets try to keep it on track. This subject will never be settled here or on any other board. I feel this would be better suited for discussion on the Instructors only or Professionals only board.

JMHO---sick of the trolls, that derail honest questions. No where in this mans question did money ever come up. So lets just be nice.

Later~

I don't see a troll here ... I see someone addressing a comment that was made in this thread. That's allowed ... if you have issues with it, try a PM to the moderators ... that's what we're here for.

In your prior post you mentioned a Dive Rite Wreck wing ... Dive Rite doesn't make a Wreck wing, they make a Rec (as in Recreational) wing. The name is prominently written on the wing. A bit of a nit, perhaps ... but since you own one, I'm surprised that you haven't noticed.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
NWGratefulDiver:
I don't see a troll here ... I see someone addressing a comment that was made in this thread. That's allowed ... if you have issues with it, try a PM to the moderators ... that's what we're here for.

In your prior post you mentioned a Dive Rite Wreck wing ... Dive Rite doesn't make a Wreck wing, they make a Rec (as in Recreational) wing. The name is prominently written on the wing. A bit of a nit, perhaps ... but since you own one, I'm surprised that you haven't noticed.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Ya your right RecWing-- Sorry--not Wreckwing--- However I still maintain this:

"The Wreck Wing is more streamlined and better suited for single cylinder diving. However it has a bungee that is really not necessary. At any rate it can be taken off, but you would always have the loops sticking out of the bladder."


I dont see why you are so hostile about my spelling however...
 
The reason i said that i thought the Halcyon was "simpler" is b/c they don't throw a bunch of unnecessary loops, D rings and such on the backplate and wing. If you need that stuff, Halcyons gear is set up so that you can place it where you want it. Also, their Eclipse wing has a "double" bladder (one bladder inside another protective shell). The only double bladder that DR offers is the Dual Rec, which adds a whole other BC hose to the mix (on top of the bungees, which present another "snag" potential). Although it is truly a redundant bladder system, it adds a lot of bells and whistles to an already cluttered system. For uncomplicated, single cylinder diving (with minimal fear of snags), it seems that Halcyon has DR beat for the moment....
 
I own and use both Halcyon and Dive Rite wings. They are both very high quality products. I will not use a pull dump system on any of my wings. "Ranking" on the sole means of inflating a wing never quite caught my fancy. I replace the elbow with the standard variety for the low price of around $8.00 and have piece of mind.

Given proper care and avoiding sharp edges does wonders for the life of a wing. Either company's products should easily last more than 500 dives.

Greg
 
strondbakken:
Also, their Eclipse wing has a "double" bladder (one bladder inside another protective shell). The only double bladder that DR offers is the Dual Rec, which adds a whole other BC hose to the mix (on top of the bungees, which present another "snag" potential). Although it is truly a redundant bladder system, it adds a lot of bells and whistles to an already cluttered system. For uncomplicated, single cylinder diving (with minimal fear of snags), it seems that Halcyon has DR beat for the moment....

This is not accurate....The Halcyon is not a "double bladder", it is an inner bladder that is inside of an outside casing. A double bladder like that of the DualRec is a true double bladder system. With the exception of the DR TravelWing, all DR wings use a system similar to the Halcyon. The Dive Rite's use a "rubbery" material for the air bladder while the current Halcyon's use the same type of material as the outside casing. It is of a thicker, inherently stiffer material than that of the bladder from a DR. The outer casing is what provides the bulk of the protection.

Also, Dive Rite produces another double bladder unit, the Double SuperWing.

IMHO, I think that double bladder units are a solution to a nonexistant problem. Dive a balanced rig with ditchable weight and its not a real issue. You won't see me diving with a rig that I can't swim to the surface. When you are 150' down, that is one h*ll of a swim.

Greg
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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