Divemasters, is it really our job ?

[Diesel298]

Sorry to say that.I coudn´t see all posts, but basically there are 2 questions.
1- Are DMs working for tip?
2 - What is their role as DM? I will not address this, because you have said everething.

I know a little the "north american" mentality as I have 2 sister living there, but I totally desagree with the "tip way to live"!! Some one said that we do not have slaves anymore...it is wrong...there are a lot spread over the world, and work for tip is kind of close of that.

We give tips in Brasil (around 10%) for waiters mainly, but I doubt they can have a decent life with that amount. So, for me, tips should be used only to give some money for those who needs charity and without a service in exchange.

If DMs are considered as JOB, please build a union and ask for earns !!! If DMs decide to not work, the "bosses" will not get their money!!!

I guess people started tipping in order to get a better services, it is kind off bribe, and the "bosses" support that in order to pay less tax, so for me is totally wrong.

And after all these, when a ordinary citizen of the world gather money to travel abroad and land on sites like Caribe and meet lots of north americans, then, or we tip or we eat!!!

I am considered 3% of the reachest people in Brasil, and my earns barely reachs a trainee engineer in US. I went to Cozumel and talking with the DM, he said me that he has a USD 150k house...5 times more expensive than mine, but if you step 10 km inside Mexico, you will see people starving...how can I tip this guy???

The only way to break this chain is stop tipping, when the industry start to lose money because the accidents with bad prepared DMs working for nothing, you will see how they start to put money to generate money...I might be so naive, but here you have my opinion.

do u tip when you eat at a restraunt. how bot the bartender at a bar.
the only solution to make your way work is to charge the divers more money to compensate for the tip...
either way your gonna pay....
ya know what i would suggest....
next time you go on a dive boat... experss your opinion to the crew fefore you do your first dive....

 

[emelotto]

do u tip when you eat at a restraunt. how bot the bartender at a bar.
the only solution to make your way work is to charge the divers more money to compensate for the tip...
either way your gonna pay....
ya know what i would suggest....
next time you go on a dive boat... experss your opinion to the crew fefore you do your first dive....

I got it. I would pay more for the services if necessary. Diving is a expensive activity and I think you have to choose if you can or can't pay for that. Many people will never dive because they spent their rare money on things they need or prefer.I love diving and I would pay for that.

My point is exactly that, I have all my gear and I pay only for the boat, crew and DM. If we pay 40USD per two dives and the boat carry, let say, 8 people, you are talking about USD 320. Coz do 2-3 trips per day, let say USD 640 a day. Minimum 20 days, you got USD 12.800 a month. Well, we need at least a Captain, 1-2 crew and a DM.

You need to pay gas, cylinder with air and maintenance...plus profit...well at Mexico, where the things are pretty as much expensive as Brasil, maybe you could pay the crew and DM with USD 3k to 4k and they will be happy. North American is a completely different market, but I know I have no money to dive there.

Doesn't matter, its just a example. my point is..if the market drives the price to higher prices and I have no money to dive I can't blame and it will be fair to all, but when you let the decision to the buyer to pay more or not (based on TIP or Total operation) you will always have the frustration.

 

[emelotto]

...next time you go on a dive boat... experss your opinion to the crew fefore you do your first dive....

I guess I just answered partially...I've explained that I prefer to pay only one time to the whole services and pay for those is charging me and not for who want a bonus from me.

The other part is "express your opinion to the crew before you do your first dive."

I use to do that, not on the first dive, because I don't wanna a guy ignoring me because I will not tip.
I don't like DMs touching my rig, but UW, I expect they show the best scenes unless I already know the place and get my buddy in other direction. As a senior diver, I also want a help If by any reason I am in trouble.

Besides that, I don't want change cultures in other places as someone said, but I will not change mine as well
And for sure I want to get the best service for what I am paying for (not a cheap price) without paying bonuses.

 

[SadiesMom]

Besides that, I don't want change cultures in other places as someone said, but I will not change mine as well
And for sure I want to get the best service for what I am paying for (not a cheap price) without paying bonuses.

Actually, Emelotto, I believe you're referring to what I said...but you're misquoting me. What I actually said was that people should follow the tipping culture of the place you're visiting. If you travel to a place where tipping is customary, you TIP (in the customary amount to express your level of approval for the service received. Higher if excellent service, lower if average service, NONE if really bad service). If you go to a place where tipping is *not* customary, you do NOT tip.

I would consider it extremely rude for someone (no matter what the tipping customs of their native land) to not follow the tipping customs of the LOCAL place when traveling (no matter how you feel about tipping and no matter how much money you make compared to the local DM). When I travel, I make it a point to know what the local customs are in regard to tipping and I FOLLOW THEM. The cost of a tip is part of the cost of the trip. It should be factored into the travel budget. It's not an "optional" cost.

 

[Diesel298]

right..
when in rome...
just ask befor you go somewhere..
ask the other locals..
everywhere is different....
here the crew get a tip based on there service...
thats motovation for the crew to do a good job....
on the boat im on we offer as much or as little help to the diver as they want....

you proved my point tho when you said hat you dont experss your feeling tword the matter untill after your dive.. because you KNOW that a tip is expected...
and your way is to conform to your way or i work for free to serve people like you.....
just a little reminder... people tend to remember the guy who was a jerk...
so your next trip out with that operation might not have the same level of service

 

[ScubaMike14]

"One thing I'd personally be leery about is if a person indicates they're alone/solo, the dive is deeper than 25-30 feet, and I don't see the diver carrying redundant gas (a pony). In that case the diver should be paired/tripled, doesn't matter if I think they said they want to be solo -- basic safety at depth requires access to backup gas. (People are ultimately personally responsible, but as DM you want to catch obvious whoopses, and solo deep without backup classifies as an obvious this-isn't-right)"

I totally disagree with you. I have done a ton of diving at depths greater than 30 feet, as have most divers. Diving "solo" with no backup gas? Not really a problem if you know what you are doing and are careful. (my opinion). It all has a lot to do with your experience, your gear (reg) and your tank and it's size. I dive a Low Pressure Steel 95 and have NEVER run out of air on a dive. Even on dives exceeding 80 feet I have not had a problem. I dive using the rule of 3rds as far as my gas consumption goes and it has never failed me.

 

[Code Monkey]

Many will disagree with me, but...

If a divemaster is leading a dive, I think he should do the following:

• Give a good dive briefing with enough information so that we can navigate for ourselves (I prefer pictures on a whiteboard but that's just me),
• If it's declared to be a drift dive, actually check the direction of the current before the dive (don't know how many times I've finned hard against a current for a 60 minute "drift" dive),
• Follow the dive briefing or, at least, have a signal that indicates that things have changed,
• Upon getting in the water and, again, upon reaching the bottom, flash everyone the okay sign and wait for a response,
• If you're finning against a current, look back every once in a while to make sure everyone is keeping up (on a couple of occasions, massively athletic DMs have buzzed away, completely out of site, from my family and others),
• Occassionally, flash everyone the okay sign and look for a response,
• Point out cool stuff,
• Aid any diver who's obviously in distress, and
• Make sure everyone got back on board, okay.

While we're at it, what's our responsibilities when we're divers diving with a divemaster? More than once, I've wanted to break from the group so that I could examine something cool that I saw but I didn't want to freak-out the divemaster. Is there a sign that say's "you're on your own -- I'm checking this out, over here"?

 

[emelotto]

Actually, Emelotto, I believe you're referring to what I said...but you're misquoting me.

That is right, but I am not confronting you, only the idea, so forgive me.

I would consider it extremely rude for someone (no matter what the tipping customs of their native land) to not follow the tipping customs of the LOCAL place when traveling (no matter how you feel about tipping and no matter how much money you make compared to the local DM).

Ok, let me ask you...do you tip the guy renting a perfect car for you? do you tip the guy who sold the airplane ticket for your trip? The answer is no, because you believe you have already paid for that service and the owner of the rental or the air company is paying the guy that served you, right? So, in my opinion, no one should do their job for free, unless they want to, and I am paying for the service anyway, if the service is good, I will come back, if it is not I will find another dive shop with a better services.

When I travel, I make it a point to know what the local customs are in regard to tipping and I FOLLOW THEM. The cost of a tip is part of the cost of the trip. It should be factored into the travel budget. It's not an "optional" cost.

Fair enough...you have the money to do that, do it, but about be or not to be "optional", sorry but If someone says to me that I will pay only if I like the services...for me this is optional. Charge to give me the service and this is not optional.

 

[DiverBuoy]

There are a few places where a tip is an insult, these are rare. Internationally, tipping is common, on nearly every continent. A 10% tip is considered the minimum and for example in the U.S. 10% implies you received bad or unacceptable service. 15% is standard gratuity, and 20% for exceptional service (rare to receive). Many people feel they have the right to not tip when service was poor, because they are under the misunderstanding that a tip implies a favor they are doing for service rendered. As a result of this seeming confusion, many service based organizations now enforce the tip as part of the bill. Personally, I no longer view tipping as optional, I tip a bit less when service was undeserving, and a bit more when exceptional. When I plan my budget I include tips as part of the calculation. The expectation that the organzation pays a base salary to its employees and if they want the employees to get more they should raise their rates to cover, is a silly notion in my opinion. I don't feel I have an option personally in giving some tip but I certainly do control the amount. The way I penalize for bad service is with the power of the pen and word of mouth.

 

[emelotto]

you proved my point tho when you said hat you dont experss your feeling tword the matter untill after your dive.. because you KNOW that a tip is expected...
and your way is to conform to your way or i work for free to serve people like you.....
just a little reminder... people tend to remember the guy who was a jerk...
so your next trip out with that operation might not have the same level of service

Diesel, have I offended you? I am sharing opinions and I am sure I am not a jerk!!

In my last trip to Coz, I dove a fully week with the same dive shop. I dove 10 times and I did´t tip. The guys gave me the same service from the very beginning till the end. I guess it is because they expect a tip from the north americans, but they do not expect the same from a Brazilian like me...and I assure you that Mexicans just love Brazilians.

Finally and again, please don't serve me for free. Tell me that your services will cost me X, and I will pay (if I could) or I will look for something cheaper...because that we are in a democracy....to choose.