Diver dies in San Diego

[zeagle911]

WOW 161ft on AL80s, even a planned dive of 130ft on AL80s shows this was an accident waiting to happen.
Thats hope the Son makes a full recovery, it must be a big loss to loose your buddy, but you father as well!!!!

 

[ScubaSteve]

First of all, this is a terrible tragedy and my thoughts go out to this boy and his family. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for him. I am glad to hear he is back home now and hopefully is able to get past this.

Maybe it was their first after AOW certification?

As has already been stated, it makes no difference. This is beyond any recreational limits and this unfortunate story just goes to show you that ignoring your training can be disatrous.

........It is believed that the father and son were certified in August 2007 and that this was their first dive since certification. The dive plan was to go to 130 feet. Both were diving single AL80s. The actual max depth was 161 feet. The pair descended down a "small salmon egg shaped buoy" which is anchored in 120 feet and proceeded to navigate deeper from that anchor point.

The father ran out of air on ascent at 60 feet (it sounds like it was a free ascent out over deep water, not a gradual ascent upslope, but I'm not sure). The father and son shared air in some manner (manner unknown by me at present) briefly but became separated. The son ran out of air at 40 feet and surfaced.
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Wow, the first dive in years planned to 130' on single aluminum 80's. Too much. I cannot imagine a first dive back (essentially a check out dive for yourself) after a period going that deep unless something happened. This was planned. And to hit 161' means either someone completely igored the plan or "something" happened.

It is also obvious that this pair had no gas management experience or plan for them both to run out of air. If the father ran out at 60' and the son ran out at 40', one can only speculate that the son was super close to running out of air at 60'. One also has to speculate as to whether the father attempted a CESA (as the son did) or if something else happened at depth. This will have to wait until the medical examiner is finished but it does make me wonder.

WOW 161ft on AL80s, even a planned dive of 130ft on AL80s shows this was an accident waiting to happen.........

Amen to this. I also hope that if the son continues to dive, that he has learned from this tragedy. Gas Management MUST be part of every dive plan.

 

[kadleck]

As has already been stated, it makes no difference. This is beyond any recreational limits and this unfortunate story just goes to show you that ignoring your training can be disastrous.

Yes, sorry! I was answering the quoted 150ft dive and quickly (and very inaccurately) translated 40m into 150ft, when it should have been 130. I was attempting to rationalise that they may have planned to go that deep. Seems unlikely now there has been some confirmation that they were OW certified anyway.

Apologies for my poor math(s)!

 

[Rick Murchison]

... maybe the father would have had a glimmer of a chance if lifeguards had seen help was needed...

No, he wouldn't.
If the response was slow, the response was slow, but even an immediate response and a lucky quick find wouldn't have saved this unfortunate fellow. He was dead. The lifeguard response is irrelevant to the outcome, and while there may be lessons learned for them to ponder for "next time," trying to tag them with even a modicum of guilt for this man's death is totally bogus.
Rick

 

[islandwheels]

an extemely expensive reminder and wake up call for the rest of us not to take diving for granted.

 

[DebF]

No, he wouldn't.
If the response was slow, the response was slow, but even an immediate response and a lucky quick find wouldn't have saved this unfortunate fellow. He was dead. The lifeguard response is irrelevant to the outcome, and while there may be lessons learned for them to ponder for "next time," trying to tag them with even a modicum of guilt for this man's death is totally bogus.
Rick

Agreed, no matter the Life Guards response, the Dad's outcome was pretty much a done deal. What I was trying to get to, were the inconsistencies in between the earlier post in this thread that said their response was fast, and what the surfer/wife had posted on the Union's web/news site. However, what if the son had been in the early stages of DCS? A fast response to his rescue would then matter.

(I was quoting the person from the paper ...those were not my words, sorry, bad post/quote ettiqutte!!)

What is very consistent, however, is the profile to this situation. The inexperienced diver(s) going well past their cert/experience level, too deep, running out of air, the attempt at sharing air, becoming seperated before reaching the surface and one of the divers not making it back alive. Very sad situation in and of itself, but the fact that this "dive profile" keeps repeating itself, makes it even worse.

 

[wilde100]

I have a couple observations I'd like to make. Please feel free to correct me.

1) If the father / son pair have not been diving a couple years, I venture they prob had to rent equipment. Didn't the dive shop check the pair out for experience and give them proper advice?

2) Going deep for whatever reasons, I'm pretty curious if the pair did a dive plan. Like perhaps the max depth for their dive given their certification level.

3) How do you lose your grip on your buddy when sharing air?? Unless maybe panick set in, combined with an uncontrolled ascent it might be easy to be separated quickly enough to prevent a re-join.

I don't mean to be a hardnut on the kid. Terrible tragedy to suffer... But it always seems to me that tragedies are a result of a series of mistakes. Hopefully the more mistakes we identify and prevent the less such accidents are repeated.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I have a couple observations I'd like to make. Please feel free to correct me.

1) If the father / son pair have not been diving a couple years, I venture they prob had to rent equipment. Didn't the dive shop check the pair out for experience and give them proper advice?

2) Going deep for whatever reasons, I'm pretty curious if the pair did a dive plan. Like perhaps the max depth for their dive given their certification level.

3) How do you lose your grip on your buddy when sharing air?? Unless maybe panick set in, combined with an uncontrolled ascent it might be easy to be separated quickly enough to prevent a re-join.

I don't mean to be a hardnut on the kid. Terrible tragedy to suffer... But it always seems to me that tragedies are a result of a series of mistakes. Hopefully the more mistakes we identify and prevent the less such accidents are repeated.

1) While I disagree with the following logic, it is not the dive shops responsibility to ensure the people renting the gear (if it was in fact rented) are capable of diving. I believe they do not even have to ask for certifications.....(per a previous heated argument on a thread here)....just here is my money and off ya go. HOWEVER, I personally think that any dive shop that rents SCUBA gear (tank or reg sets) to an uncertified diver is negligent (start the flaming).

2) Their planned depth was apparently 130' (I believe I read this in here). Terrible decision to plan that depth after a long time in water, but up to the pair.

3) I think it is safe to say that yes there was in fact something else that happened. I am certain that we will likely never know. Only the son will ever know. I do agree that to lose your buddy during an air share ascent is crazy....but this is I suppose, proof that it is possible.

 

[Teamcasa]

1) If the father / son pair have not been diving a couple years, I venture they prob had to rent equipment. Didn't the dive shop check the pair out for experience and give them proper advice?

Nope. No doubt people will try to find fault with someone, but it is not the shops responsibility unless they demonstrated some very strange behavior when renting gear.

2) Going deep for whatever reasons, I'm pretty curious if the pair did a dive plan. Like perhaps the max depth for their dive given their certification level.

Plan or no plan, going to that depth proved to be a bad decision for them. The lesson we should learn from this is that accidents can and will happen and at that depth, the consequences are dire. Until the son reveals more information, all we can do is speculate and I happen to believe they planed a deep dive then Nitrogen Narcosis changed the plan and the tragic outcome.

3) How do you lose your grip on your buddy when sharing air?? Unless maybe panick set in, combined with an uncontrolled ascent it might be easy to be separated quickly enough to prevent a re-join.

Inexperience, Nitrogen Narcosis, Panic and OOA changes even the best of plans.

I don't mean to be a hardnut on the kid. Terrible tragedy to suffer... But it always seems to me that tragedies are a result of a series of mistakes. Hopefully the more mistakes we identify and prevent the less such accidents are repeated.

The son is going to have to live with whatever happened. His life has been tragically changed forever and will need significant help through this. Divers need to take dive planning more serious. All to often, diving deep is the goal and I’m just as guilty. When I first started diving, I could not wait to go deep. So deep I went. Fortunately, I survived but it was just dumb luck.

Here is a warning to new divers: Don’t go deep, you won’t find anything down there but colder water, darkness, narcosis and the pleasure of watching your air get sucked out of your tank at an alarming rate.
If you must (and we know your ego requires it) go deep, do so only with an instructor or very well qualified diver, have a good plan and know your limitations.

 

[ianw2]

1) If the father / son pair have not been diving a couple years, I venture they prob had to rent equipment. Didn't the dive shop check the pair out for experience and give them proper advice?

While I’m sure that the dive shop DID check for C-Cards when renting the tanks and regs, there is no requirement to check logs or conduct interviews to determine actual experience. Checking C-Cards is a standard of practice; checking logs and conducting interviews is not. The C-Card implies that the carrier has been properly trained.

12) Going deep for whatever reasons, I'm pretty curious if the pair did a dive plan. Like perhaps the max depth for their dive given their certification level.

It is a sad fact that few current OW programs actually go into any “gas management” or “dive planning” topics in any detail. In fact, it is often demonstrated by actions in classes that the dive should be “turned” when the divers get to about half of their initial gas supply. Very little time, if any, is spent on what constitutes planning a dive.

13) How do you lose your grip on your buddy when sharing air?? Unless maybe panick set in, combined with an uncontrolled ascent it might be easy to be separated quickly enough to prevent a re-join.

Perhaps the reasons why the divers in an OOA/Share Air situation need to grab on to each other and hold on are not being emphasized properly.

Hopefully the more mistakes we identify and prevent the less such accidents are repeated.

The climbing community publishes an annual volume covering each incident in anonymous detail without judgment or advice. These incidents can be used for training and discussion among climbing buddies and clubs. Various practices, equipment set-ups and techniques can be modified, or at least checked thoroughly, because of the sharing of this information so capable of saving lives.

As an example of such reports, one that sticks in my mind was on the order of:

A 45 year-old male in good health, 12 years of climbing experience, fell 700’ to his death while rappelling from the top of (climbing route) on (peak). It was determined that the stop knot on the rope was loose and failed to arrest the descent.

Unfortunately, we really don’t have a similar mechanism in the diving community. What a pity.


Ian