Divi Tiara-Cayman Brac

[winky]

I apologize for my previous post, as was a little blinded by anger after reading hh's post. Although I've been reading the message board for a couple of months, and benefitted from a lot of the postings there (is that the definition of a "lurker"?) I have never felt the need to do my own posting until I read that. I felt that hh's response was highly uncalled for in the way it was worded and was extremely disrespectful. I also realize that hh was possibly just trying to provide another view on the reasoning behind Tiara's service (or lack thereof). However, I don't feel that Lori should have been called a liar or chastized for being an inexperienced diver because of anything she said. On the other hand, hh, I'm confused as to whether you are trying to help or hurt Tiara with your responses because you are doing much more damage to their reputation than she did!!!!

 

[-hh]

winky once bubbled...
I apologize for my previous post, as was a little blinded by anger after reading hh's post.

I should apologize too; my style is to be direct and unambiguous, calling a spade a spade. It can ruffle feathers at times.

I also realize that hh was possibly just trying to provide another view on the reasoning behind Tiara's service (or lack thereof). However, I don't feel that Lori should have been called a liar or chastized for being an inexperienced diver because of anything she said.

I've pointed out where Lori's story doesn't make sense to me, and she's already effectively recinded her "28 hour SI" claim, even though she didn't admit it as a mistake. I'll forgive honest mistakes, and if I make a mistake myself, I'll admit it. Its just that I'm going to call a spade a spade when a part of the story stinks.

And insofar as my degree of chastisement, Lori is far from inexperienced, so she should know better than to propogate such nonsense. Her profile claims that she's Cave certified and an Instructor, and based on supplementary biography research I did, I believe she was probably certified 8-9 years ago.

I don't mean to ruffle even more feathers, but IMO, if a person supposedly with this level of credentials can't cut the mustard, then they should turn in their shingles.

On the other hand, hh, I'm confused as to whether you are trying to help or hurt Tiara with your responses because you are doing much more damage to their reputation than she did!!!!

As I've freely admitted, they have problems. And even though I've upturned a truckload of "dirt", I still have paranoid SB participants who accuse me of being a shill.

For example, one accusation was that I was a relative to the GM. Personally, I find that accusation highly insulting, but I let it pass, because the accuser is probably ignorant of the subject's educational credentials...and I actually know them.


-hh

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

-hh once bubbled...


I should apologize too; my style is to be direct and unambiguous, calling a spade a spade. It can ruffle feathers at times.
-hh

I kind of liked your style. If you have the info to back up your statements (as apparently you do) then a spade is indeed a spade.

With regard to the DM's at Tiara and CBBR I noticed a trend of young people with relatively bad habits for DMs. One of the DMs was bragging about being up most of the night (4:30 a.m.) at a going away party for a large group that had just left the resort. He seemed to indicate that heavy partying went on quite a bit among the local DMs. That would not seem to mix with a lot of diving.

 

[SeaFlea]

Despite the dissection of your trip report by hh, I too won't give repeat business to those whose level of service is below par. There are far too many other places that know how to get and keep repeat customers. Thx for your report. I will avoid all Divi Tiara resorts in the future. Besides, I think hh would enjoy it much more without us.

Cheers.

 

[Zagnut]

Who cares when the flights go out. My OW manual says 12hr. minimum SI, but 24 is really recommended....but whatever, the dive op can set whatever rules they like....that's not the real issue here.

This is:

If they knew when the flights were (and I'm sure they knew exactly which flight out she was taking as they have that info for transfers and such) and they knew they didn't dive on Friday... and here's the pertinent part...why did they take her money?..they knew she couldn't do the dive...the answer is probably because their left hand doesn't have a clue as to what their right hand is doing, so to speak. Which is goes hand in hand(pardon the pun) with poor customer service.

I'd be p*ssed too, if a maid knocked on my door at 5:00 a.m. (or called on my phone for that matter) to see if anybody is in the room. Why can't she just check at the front desk? Huh?... after all they should know if somebody is in the room or not. If they don't know, it's probably because their left hand doesn't have a clue to what their right hand is doing, which goes right along with poor customer service.

As far as the leaking tank..again...who cares how fast it's leaking? (btw, I can't really recreate the scenario in my pool by throwing my gear in because my pool isn't 110' feet deep) How fast it leaks isn't the point..it's leaking..that's the point. If I'm paying Cayman prices for a tank, I want every damn last breath I can get out of the thing (not counting the last 500psi or whatever they like you to end the dive with) as long as I'm within my NDLs.

If I go into their shop for a dive and they ask for $70 ( or whatever the price), would it be acceptable for me to demand that they only charge 90% of the advertised price? No. Well then, if I HAVE to pay full price..then give me a full tank. ..not one that's only 90% full.

The point is not the little details you are harping on. The point is this: If you are going to demand that I pay full price, then give me EVERYTHING I am paying for, or compensate me in some way for the service I'm not getting (that I paid full price for)....Don't walk off muttering some chickensh**t crap about putting another nail in the coffin because I already hate you! That is p*ss poor customer service....which can lead to bankruptcy....Hmm...why again, was it that they went into bankruptcy?

 

[Zagnut]

While I was typing you all mellowed out and my post is still ranting.

HH,
Nothing personal, I'm really just playing devils advocate a bit. I'm sure if you frequent the place, you'll see good service as well as bad service. If you only make it down once, spotty service becomes a very critical issue.

My general inclination, when two extremely opposing views are involved, is to hear both sides (attack neither) and figure that the truth is somewhere in the middle....not the case, though, if a whole trail of people tell me the same thing.

I like lively debate here on the board, and I like to get all sides of the story...I just don't like when it deteriorates into personal attacks and name calling.

Now everybody get over here...group hug!?!.. :cuddle:

 

[Diver Lori]

A few points....

I am confused as to how my freaking surface interval allows for poor customer service?

I've been certified alot longer than 9 years. And mind you, how did you arrive at that figure?

And yes, I've seen a tank, with a blown o-ring go from 3300 psi very quickly to 750 psi during a skill in the overhead during my cave training, the chaos created by the bubbles alone was enough to compound the problem.

HH...you say I'm a spade, not hardly. The facts I have provided are true and I'm not the only group effected. Another group we spoke with was treated poorly after they complained as well which seems to be SOP for the mgmt staff at Divi.

As Zagnut noted, I don't NEED a 5am wakeup call when the front office is quite aware of my departure time.

 

[-hh]

Zagnut once bubbled...
Who cares when the flights go out. My OW manual says 12hr. minimum SI, but 24 is really recommended....but whatever, the dive op can set whatever rules they like...

And the policy is posted on the front window of the diveshop (and its not 12 hrs).

In fairness to Lori, as busy as it was last week, I would expect most people to miss noticing it.

(The real issue here is)...If they knew when the flights were (and I'm sure they knew exactly which flight out she was taking as they have that info for transfers and such) and they knew they didn't dive on Friday... and here's the pertinent part...why did they take her money?

Its because of the tyrany of discounted package deals. Happens all the time.

Lori's alternative was to dive "Al le Cart". This way she would have only paid for the dives that she did. However, the catch is that she doesn't get the extra freebies/benefits that are included in the packages, and here, that includes one included trip over to Little Cayman, which is a $30 MSRP. IIRC, this is about the same as the PM diveboat ($32), so overall, its at worst a wash.


As you alluded to paying full price, we can ask the question of if she got a reasonable value or not. Well, here's "full price":

STD Room: $125/night (+taxes; from memory)
Brac Dive: $85/pp-day (3 tanks @ Brac)
LC Dive: ~$122/pp (2 tanks @ LC + PM Brac diveboat)
Food/MAP: $55/pp-day (Note: from memory)

For a week's stay,

Cost = (7 nights)($125) + (5 days)($85)(2 divers) + (1 day)($122)(2 divers) + (6 days)($55)(2 people) + ($20 for Airport transfers)

Which sums to: $875 + $850 + $244 + $660 + $20 = $2649.

Divide by two to get "per person" price: $1325/pp.

Now I'm going to assume that Lori was smart enough to take Divi's ongoing $777 Package special, or something equivalent.

As such, $777 versus $1325 means that the package gives a 41% discount.

And if you apply that discount rate to the MSRP for a PM dive, the basis of the complaint is focusing on a lost $19 instead of the saved $548.


-hh

 

[-hh]

Zagnut once bubbled...
As far as the leaking tank..again...who cares how fast it's leaking? (btw, I can't really recreate the scenario in my pool by throwing my gear in because my pool isn't 110' feet deep) How fast it leaks isn't the point..it's leaking..that's the point. If I'm paying Cayman prices for a tank, I want every damn last breath I can get out of the thing (not counting the last 500psi or whatever they like you to end the dive with) as long as I'm within my NDLs.

My point about the leaking tank is that we're often irrational in our perceptions as to what is significant.

Sure, "no" leak is better, but is the leak in question really worth worrying about in the first place? There's two factors that need to be considered before we conclude if it is (or is not):

The first is the amount of air lost. It varies, but a typical little squim of bubbles -type of leak amounts to around 1 cubic foot per hour. 1 cubic foot from an AL80 is a 1.3% variance, and if we express it in PSI, its 38psi. A variance of 38psi is less than half of the gage calibration error in a good analog gage, and while it slightly exceeds the gage calibration error bands of a well maintained digital gage, few of us bother to keep our gages calibrated, so pragmatically, its going to be within normally accepted calibration values...all in all, its a wash: if you're really determined to get your "value", breathe your tank down to 450psi (but keep in mind that it could really be anywhere between 350-550psi because of your instrumentation).

The second consideration is if a tiny leak like this results in a statistically significant higher risk of a blow-out than a non-leaking system. This was "Q3". And the answer here is that the objective statistical likelihood of an O-ring blowout does not significantly change from this attribute (translation: "No").


Now that we've looked at the issue objectively, the conclusion is that we've irrationally made a mountain out of a molehill.

FWIW, the DM's comment ounded to me like something Cary would say. Cary has over 5,000 dives, which is hard to ignore. He's also one of the few boat captains who's skilled enough to go "Between" on a Cayman Brac Bluff Run.


Finally, the reason that I'm hitting what should be "small things" is because any arguement is only as strong as its weakest link.


-hh

 

[-hh]

Diver Lori once bubbled...
I am confused...you say I'm a spade, not hardly. The facts I have provided are true and I'm not the only group effected....I don't NEED a 5am wakeup call

Lori, "Calling a spade a spade" is a euphemism.

And my point on things like your hangup on SI's and O-rings is that you HURT your case with mistakes. As I said to Zagnut, "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link".

And the more dive experience that you claim to have, the less excusable such mistakes on your part are: You should know better!


On the 5am call bit, I've already explained that since ~99% of the customers usually leave on the early flight, this is a simple, understandable mistake on the hotel's part. Yes, its still a nuisance, but compared to the diveboat srcrew-ups, it really is so minor that IMO not even worthy of mention. Now if you had rats in your room...or a hundred bats...we'll talk.


BTW Zagnut - - there are no Maids in at 5am. The only people typically up at that hour are Cliff, Melita (in the kitchen), and the Front desk graveyard shiftperson, but in this case, it was the hotel's GM. Most staff doesn't arrive onsite until ~7:30am



Meantime, I'm still wondering what time Lori's departure flight was. One of the things that I don't like about the Brac are the flight schedules, and we look every year for alternatives. If there's some new miracle flight, I'm still waiting to hear about it...


-hh