Diving Classes Then and Now

[flyin01]

Understood. There are a number of places in the world were running a night class is difficult. Where I am, night classes in the summer often have stretched well past 1:00 a.m. due to how late it takes to get dark.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2015 at 05:36 PM ----------
That is a major reason it was removed from a requirement of AOW.

That would be a hard sell. Class starts at 12:30am who's in??

 

[Wedge]

Thank you - very informative and entertaining!

 

[Hawkwood]

That would be a hard sell. Class starts at 12:30am who's in??

June/July it doesn't get dark into 10:30ish. If you are only doing the Adventure Dive, you'd be done and off the Site by 11:30 to midnight. If you are doing the specialty, much later and most likely over two nights.

Like I said, hence why it's no longer mandatory.

 

[Steve_C]

If you are only doing the Adventure Dive, you'd be done and off the Site by 11:30 to midnight. If you are doing the specialty, much later and most likely over two nights.

Why two nights? I thought the first dive was to familiarize yourself with the area before the night dive as recommended? So the night dive would still be at the same time and dive one would be earlier.

 

[Bob DBF]

A huge amount of the instruction has been split up into separate courses.

I like the idea of "splitting up" and "focusing in". Separating the basic sections from the advanced is a way to keep classes focused, and also allows the instructors to sell a wider variety of classes.

So then, which subjects did we have in decades past that are now only ever offered as the most rudimentary, ghostly kind of overview or utterly absent?

I was only being semi-frivolous when I mentioned harassment as a missing piece. People don't enjoy getting smacked on the mask hard enough to turn their head around, having their regs tied into knots, being dragged face-down across the bottom of the pool by their tanks, etc. Lawyers go into a catatonic state when they read an outline of it.

I can't imagine this kind of training coming back in any form.

My only problem with splitting the OW class into several parts is that you get the same OW card at the end of the first class and never have to take any other class.

I don't know how much is "dropped" from the course, however anytime you cut the time of instruction you will have to short something. In addition, doing part online, a pool session with one instructor, then OW dives with another instructor, gives little time for personal attention which may help bring out issues that may save your butt later on.

As for harassment, if it is done in a positive manner, i.e. in Rescue training, it can do a lot to improve confidence by dealing with real world problems in a training environment. I always thought having mask knocked and reg pulled out and OOA drills is better done first when there is someone professional around to insure you are ok if you panic. Knowing about where your threshold of panic is one of the best dive planning tools you can have.



Bob
--------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[Hawkwood]

Why two nights? I thought the first dive was to familiarize yourself with the area before the night dive as recommended? So the night dive would still be at the same time and dive one would be earlier.

Nope. All three dives are to be done at night. Dive #1 has specific night diving skills to do.

One could still do all three in one night, but I won't do it where I am.

 

[drrich2]

It's been said that way back when, the basic OW course was more comprehensive with higher standards, whereas modern training is more modular, and some things done in the old days were deemed unnecessary (I've read others mention back in the day students doing pushups while geared up if memory serves?).

Be that as it may, consider...

1.) You can still additional training.

2.) You can hold yourself to higher standards, and seek out instructors who will do that. Jim wrote about his course a bit.

3.) Consider what conditions you will dive in? Are you an aquarium-like conditions tropical vacation diver who only does guided boat dives or shore diving in excellent conditions (e.g.: Bonaire, Curacao)? Or will you shore dive more demanding sites such as coastal California (where I hear Monastery Beach carries the nickname Mortuary Beach due to fatalities)? Do you plan to advance into technical diving? Will you deep dive in dark, cold waters solo?

4.) The Advanced OW course is often pushed, and can be a good add-on to training. I'd recommend the Rescue Diver course, as a number of other folks do. A nitrox course is handy to give you access to dive nitrox.

My point is, modern mainstream training is paced out over more courses & time, and that can be a bad thing, but it does not have to be. You are an adult. It gives you choices.

Richard.

 

[TMHeimer]

PADI's recommended course hours for OW is 31.

Of course you are correct (I always assume that as you know the standards back & forth). But IMO there are "problems". First, "recommended" means you don't have to (as in PADI's "recommended 60' OW depth"--as in an old thread, when can you now go below 60' without taking AOW AND "with PADI's blessing"?).
Let me say that I have talked with several PADI shops regarding their OW courses and feel that none could do a better job with OW than our shop (though of course I'm biased).
I THINK the OP's question, along with the many other threads on this subject, has to do mainly with pool time.
If you count all time spent on everything (let's take the "2 weekend" course for example), maybe it approaches 31 hours (maybe).
But let's use our shop's course for data:

e learning: I admit I'm not familiar with it (some of our instructor think it's great, others think it sucks). So let's take the classroom version:
Academics: 3 hours on Sat. & Sun.--test included. = 6 hours.
Pool time: Approx. 4-5 hours each of the 2 days (closer to 4?). So the first weekend is about 14 hours.
OW checkout dives: Actual time including gearing up, down and the 4 dives over 2 days: Maybe 4 hours each day= 8 hours.
8+14=22

Now, re academics, you have to consider that with e learning this probably varies a lot per student. Also, you have to consider this is book work--needed and important of course, but not actual doing of dive skills.

Re OW checkouts: There is some new instruction here of course-- such as a new weight check, maybe using the SMB (as per new OW course), maybe dropping weights, and of course the basic use of compass. Also, dive planning, the mini dive, etc. But a majority of this time is spent swimming (surface or below) to a float (swimming/buoyancy already covered in the pool), and doing SOME of the 20 skills learned in the pool. So, a fair chunk of those 4 hours each checkout day is not instruction on new skills.

If you actually just count the training with equipment, the 20 skills, and how to dive with good buoyancy as training, the hours decrease a lot from the 22 I mentioned. I am of course, not a PADI basher, as PADI is all I really know, and it's done fine by me.

Others from the olden days may also chime in saying that many of those pool hours back then were overly vigorous, leading to only Olympic-ready people to get certified.

So, if we use the criteria above, yes I think the OW course has been way watered down (based on what I read here, having only been OW cert. since 2005).
As some have pointed out over time, a course with more than what PADI offers (like "back then") would cost so much than many would just say forget it.

There is also the old thread on what "mastering" skills means (won't get into that). I would imagine the courses decades ago spent some of the lengthy pool hours on really "mastering" skills.

From what I've read over the years, Jim L. does an outstanding course with a lot more hours and at a very reasonable price. Jim can comment on SEI and how widespread the agency is. If you are not close enough to Jim or another SEI instructor, you are very likely to take a course as described above.

 

[drrich2]

When considering hours, be mindful that a lot of self-study can come into play. When I did the OW course (started in 2005; finished last 2 check-out dives April '06), we didn't have e-learning. I bought the OW manual and spent a lot of time reading & studying it. I don't know how typical that is, but if you want the knowledge, it's there, and at least in my book was pretty well-written and easily absorbed. Classroom time revisited some content, but in my mind, the goal was to walk in already knowing the material and ready to pass the test.

Richard.

 

[NAM001]

Confused here. I never knew night diving was part of AOW. Unless things have changed AOW teaches very little if anything. It is an experience course to qualify for upgrading the ow to and aow using X experience dives to expand your diving exposure. Normally easy ones like ,,,navigation,, deep (>60'), low vis/night. Whammy whammy you have an AOW per absolute minimum requirements. Any of the experience dives do not qualify for a certification card. Each of the experience dives have separate related courses associated with them that are far more extensive than what is shown in the aow class. Probably the most valued part of AOW is the agility test at depth to make you realize what being narced is. Aow's biggest strength resides in the instructor and how he tailors the class to the divers perspective needs. The experience dives alone is there to wet your appitite for further training. It is also a course that if you can do it, do it one on one or 2 on one to max the personal benefit. A good instructor will develop you into a good diver with buoyancy and trim skills that is fundamental to any diving. Add to that the ability to use a compass and there is not much you cant do as far as the refined fundamental's go. As far as te rest of the op goes, yes it has been watered down from one course to many courses. All the agencies have done it. I did my first cert in the late 60's and although I did not have to swim 5 miles blindfolded up hill, the class did take 8 or so weeks and encompassed what is today's master diver.

It seems like P.A.D.I. Has watered down their course over the years. Removing some skills like equipment ditch and recovery and the night dive from the AOW course.