Diving to 130 ft ?

[BDSC]

Your right - sorry not sure how I missed that.

No Problem!

 

[boulderjohn]

Having read through this entire thread, I think you should do the dive for several reasons.

1. You have indicated that you have some pretty good dive skills. Depending upon the currents, Barracuda can be a much more difficult dive than the Devil's Throat. I did it once when it was fairly easy, but the last time I did it I had as much of a challenge as I have ever had while diving recreationally. Aldora would not take you on that dive if it did not believe you had the skills needed to handle the worst case scenario.

2. You will be diving with Aldora, meaning you will have steel 120s. You will have plenty of gas.

3. The 130 feet depth is momentary, and it is not necessarily 130 feet. You will plunge down the throat (be ready to equalize) and come out through a pretty wide opening. If you make the common mistake of staying parallel with the sand floor, you can go down to 130 or lower, but if you stay near the top of the swim through instead, you will be more like 125. As you emerge, you will begin to ascend immediately. There is nothing to see at the 130 feet level, so your DM will ascend quickly to bring you to areas of greater interest. You will probably be deeper than 100 feet for only a couple of minutes max.

4. I have followed divers with poor finning skills through the Devil's Throat and other similar swim throughs in Cozumel many times. They kick up the fine sand a bit, but even the worst case scenario will not create a dangerous vis situation.

5. With skilled DMs (which Aldora certainly has), a site like this can be very different for different groups of divers. A DM will size up the skill level of the group and lead an appropriate dive. The last time I did Devil's Throat, it was a marvelous experience, far different from anything I had ever experienced there. The formation that houses the Devil's Throat is actually riddled with swim throughs, and an experienced group can have a really nice time if the DM knows you and your skills.

 

[scubadada]

OP stated they would be diving with Aldora Divers. They will be using HP steel 120s rather than AL 80s. Primairy air supply should not be a problem. In addition, they are likely to have been observed for skill level on prior dives and are likely to have a quality DM.

I would be more concerned about other divers in the swim through. You're talking about an environment that's really only appropriate for technical (or unusually advanced recreational) divers, most of whom would not prefer to do the dive with AL80s, and especially with unknown divers.

I did Punta Sur way before I should have. I was okay, but all it takes is one person in the cluster-******* ahead of you in the swim through to really foul things up. As it was in my case, I couldn't see much of anything except the fins flailing away in front of me.

I think Aldora has some larger tanks, and hopefully you'll go through with a good group. I wouldn't count on it, though.

OTOH, several groups of severely under-prepared divers go through Devil's throat every day of the year and they don't seem to be dying regularly. I just don't think it's a pleasant experience. I'd dive Colombia deep or deeper parts of Palancar 20 times before spending another dive at Devil's throat.

This has been a very active thread with many thoughtful suggestions and comments. I'm sure the OP appreciates the valuable information.

When we did Punta Sur with Aldora, we were first and only boat at the site. We could have had a max of 6 divers but only had 4. The other couple were very skilled. Our dive worked out flawlessly and was a great experience. Of course, it could have worked out otherwise with another operator, different timing, different divers...

Looks like 2 people have some decisions to make on their trip to Cozumel, lucky them.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Mike]

Very interesting thoughts in regard to dive numbers on here. I personally find it kind of weird how susinctly somebody can be judged to be either talented enough or not talented enough based on some strange stepped system based soley on quanties of dives.

Kind of to me like judging the tastiness of a bartenders drinks based on how many of them he has made, meaning a bartender who has made only 10 rum and cokes would not be able to compete with the rum and coke of a bartender who has made 1000 in his career.

I'm kind of curious what talents somebody is exactly accumilating on dives for instance between for instance 81 and 86? or between dive numbers 101 and 108 and maybe dives 73 and 78?

I've dived with divers with hundreds of dives who are an absolute mess. Last year I had the displeasure of diving with a "diving family" from Texas, the father made sure to give his and his families diving resume to everyone who might be near to hear it, explaining he does 300 dives a year, his wife does 100 and his kids do 50. What ensued on that night dive was something between dangerous, ugly and hilarious. I've also dove with divers interested in photography with 20 or less dives who have perfect boyancy control bordering the magical.

 

[protohuman]

Having dived the devil's throat and also the cenotes, I humbly suggest you dive some cenotes before doing the throat. Dos Ojos is a particularly good cenote to dive. Manuelo at the Grand Mayan Riviera Maya resort's dive shack is a great guy to set up a cenote dive. You do not have to stay there to use their dive shop, but it IS a wonderful place to stay. You may dive the cenotes only with an experienced certified guide. The cenotes are a MUCH shallower dive with all the cavern thrills to experience. The Devil's Throat does not have underwater stalagmites and stalagtites, the cenotes do. It is also a laid back diving day, including a nice lunch. But you do have to hump your dive geaqr down the stairs.

 

[Bonairetrip]

Very interesting thoughts in regard to dive numbers on here. I personally find it kind of weird how susinctly somebody can be judged to be either talented enough or not talented enough based on some strange stepped system based soley on quanties of dives.

Kind of to me like judging the tastiness of a bartenders drinks based on how many of them he has made, meaning a bartender who has made only 10 rum and cokes would not be able to compete with the rum and coke of a bartender who has made 1000 in his career.

There is no doubt that seeing someone in the water is the best way to evaluate (especially if you also get to see them kit up). But that is not really available via the internet.

For me, a better analogy (to bar tending) might be learning to climb. Are some newbies naturals? Yep. Are some long time climbers a disaster? Yep, a very few. That doesn't mean that experience is not a decent indicator of ability. And the more you climb the better you get.

The OP has the equivalent of about 6 or 7 dives a year for the last 7 years. That really is not that many. That is probably three two tank boat dives a year.

My guess (and it is little more than that) is that the OP is at the more skilled end of divers with that background. If they had been dives that were super challenging (once to 100, many times to 80, all probably tropical) or they had been concentrated in the last year, that would be one thing.

In terms of the diving family, when someone insists on giving me their diving resume, I am always a bit suspicous. And 300 dives a year would also seem unlikely to me.

 

[Mike]

Having dived the devil's throat and also the cenotes, I humbly suggest you dive some cenotes before doing the throat.

Lots of swim throughs and we have a tiny cavern diving experience from Cenote diving a couple of years ago.

The OP has the equivalent of about 6 or 7 dives a year for the last 7 years. That really is not that many. That is probably three two tank boat dives a year.

My guess (and it is little more than that) is that the OP is at the more skilled end of divers with that background. If they had been dives that were super challenging (once to 100, many times to 80, all probably tropical) or they had been concentrated in the last year, that would be one thing.

11 were this May in Roatan and 12 more were last November in Cozumel.

Also as has been stated by a few people who are familiar with Aldora - they don't allow just anybody on advanced dives, in order to have done advanced dives with Aldora you must have passed being scrutinized by them and found to have capable skills. This is usually the MO of the better dive ops anywhere.

Not trying to argue the point one way or another, but the whole dive total thing and especially doing the number of total dives divided by years thing...

Anyways, just find it interesting, when this is all recreational diving for the most of us how somehow it all becomes so technically oriented. Like I said, what exactly are you gaining between dive #81 and dive #82?

Barring any handicaps or phobias or something else that would effect a person in the water, somebody comfortable, in good physical condition and a conscientious attitude diver should be doing the majority of their steep learning curve in the first dozen dives, then things level off dramatically from there with some incremental plateaus of learning with tweaking of skills along the way all through recreational diving. I'd think you could do 1000 recreational dives and not see too much difference in a person in the last 900 of them.

These could be classified easily under famous last words though, couldn't they?

Starting to sound very flippant about the whole safety aspect of diving and respect for the activity which isn't really me at all.

 

[Bonairetrip]

<SNIP>
Anyways, just find it interesting, when this is all recreational diving for the most of us how somehow it all becomes so technically oriented. Like I said, what exactly are you gaining between dive #81 and dive #82?
<SNIP>

While I agree with many of your points, I am not sure I agree with these two. First, there is a big spread within recreational diving. I would not take someone with 1,000 dives in Puget Sound and assume they are good to go for a shore entry at Monestary. Nor would I assume someone who has many tropical dives under their belt is ready for the cold, dark and current of Puget Sound (or the cold, dark and creepy quarry). A PNW diver has to pay real attention in the tropics as it is very easy to end up deeper than you expected. And a 90 minute dive is differnent than 80 feet for 25 minutes.

If I were to redo Punta Sur, I would treat it as a more technical dive. Just as I did the Windjammer. Punta Sur is deep with some confined spaces. It is not the typical 80 ft reef dive (in fact, that is part of the appeal). Is it an insane dive that routinely kills/bends people? Of course not. Is it a real deal the demands prudence and respect? IMHO, yes.

I agree the learning curve is steepest in the early years of diving and what is learned from dive 81 to 82 is not always huge. But it is something.

How many dives have you been primarily responsible for navigation? How many have been made without a dive master? How many have you had something go wrong (BC inflator hose stick, burst hose, broken mask, lost fin, lost weights, bad leg cramp, lost buddy, disoriented, unexpected current pushing you away, downdraft, etc.)? Have you been really narced? Had a reverse squeeze? How many times have you set up your own gear (other than in class)? Use a SMD to do a stop in blue water? If the answer after dive 81 was zero, and was 1 after dive 82, I suspect you learned something on that 82nd dive.

In the end, you are responsible for planning and deciding whether or not to make any given dive. IMHO, folks have provided you with lots of opinions (both ways) and advice. We post, you decide...

 

[Mike]

I thought I would follow up to this thread I started.

We got to do the devil's throat dive. I made a kind of crappy video, but it's mostly in real time so it is interesting in that regard.

Punta Sur - Devil's throat Nov 2009

My take on the dive- it ended up being well within our abilities. Nothing too crazy. I fully understand how most people's reaction after having done the dive ends up being that they would go on it again if they had to, but probably would not seek doing it again unless they have to.

The video will makes it appear darker then it was.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Mike your video looked pretty good minus the lack of available light. But what we really want to hear is what your plan for the dive was. You knew you had this dive coming up, did you figure out how much air it would take to surface safely between two divers on one tank and what your turn pressures were? If you can say yes, I think across the board you'll earn some respect for a good planned dive and diving the plan.