Do you avoid people with bad sac rates?

At what sac rate do you avoid diving with someone?

  • 0.50+

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • 0.75+

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • 0.85+

    Votes: 4 12.5%
  • 0.95+

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • 1.00+

    Votes: 14 43.8%

  • Total voters
    32

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Mike,

Let's assume your data is correct (personally, I have no reason to doubt it). This means you and your buddies are able to breathe at a slower rate as depth increases. Let's assume for the sake of the argument that exercise activity, temperature, etc. have all been normed out by the averaging of the sac rates. Is there any theory which would explain the slower breathing at depth?

1. Do you (and your buddies) concentrate on conserving air more effectively at depth?

2. Physiologically -- and I'm no Doctor -- is an individually able to spread out breaths longer at depth naturally? I've only heard that co2 buildup causes the need to breath. I don't know if it is the %of co2 gas in the lungs or the absolute amount of co2 in the lungs that causes the need to breath. I could see, however, if it was the % of co2 in the lungs, that an individual might be able to slow down breathing at depth in a linear fashion. Let's say, at a constant easy activity rate I generate x grams of co2 per 10 seconds at the surface. At depth (say 33' for simplicity), with the same level of activity, I would still generate the same x grams/10 seconds. However, my lungs would contain twice the amount of other gasses (2g).

So x/2g (fraction of co2 at depth) is 1/2 x/g (the fraction of co2 in the lungs at the surface). Therefore, if breathing reaction is triggered by % of co2 (assumption which I don't have any idea if its true), I would feel less likely to need a breath at depth with the same time since last breath (assuming I was able to clear the lungs as efficiently at depth as at the surface with the last breath). Consequently, it would seem possible to slow down breathing at depth.

Of course, this all falls apart if it is the amount of co2 that triggers the need to breathe.

Maybe a doctor or biologist could provide comments to support or repudiate this theory?.
 
CO2 in the blood determines the need to breath (TSandM can probably correct me if I am wrong.)

If Deeper means less breathing due to physiology:
Depth would either need to influence the amount of CO2 in the blood, or the way the body reacts to CO2 in the blood.

Personally I don't think deeper means less breathing.

So far, data-wise all I have seen is somebody who switched on the light, at that moment it started raining and now they are saying switching on the light makes it rain.
(No offence intended)
 
I am not saying anything...just looking at data. We have been looking at my data, what about the other divers data I posted? Again...three different divers, three different diving environments, the same correlation.

Mike
 
CO2 in the blood determines the need to breath (TSandM can probably correct me if I am wrong.)


Well, I did say i wasn't a doctor:D Still, I thought I'd give it a shot for an explanation.
 
Agree

And even if you could complety descripe the SAC relationship. The dive will never be exactly to plan. So saying something about your sac for a future dive will always be an estimation.
I've changed my mind a bit- doing the dry chamber tests would prove or disprove the hypothesis that air consumption is dependant on depth. That would have some empirical value that might uncover some physiological insights. The actual numbers might not be as useful for diving (I.e., you couldn't take the dry numbers and use them for dive planning), but the results and insights might be useful on a theoretical level.

Of course, after writing all that, I have a SAC number that works for me and the dives that I do, so I'll leave the actual experiment to those who are more curious. :D
 
I am not saying anything...just looking at data. We have been looking at my data, what about the other divers data I posted? Again...three different divers, three different diving environments, the same correlation.

Mike

I have looked at the data of all three.

Statistically there is no significant relationship between depth and sac in the data you have supplied.
(I know what I am talking about.)


On a side note:

There was a study carried out on court cases. It turned out there was a very clear relationship (statistically significant) between the pay of the judges and the length of the court cases.

The higher the pay of the judge the longer the court cases took.

You could draw the conclusion that cheaper judges would give shorter court cases.

The real reason was the fact that the experienced judges were used for the more serious court cases (capital crimes etc). These cases were more difficult and had more witnesses etc. And therefor took much longer to conduct.
The easy cases (less witnesses etc) went to the less experienced judges (and they were paid less).
 
The biggest downside of solo diving is ofcourse the fact that you are always the diver with the highest SAC. :wink:

Well Ice Mike I've lived with that for 20 yrs. or more. You are, of course, spot on that my SAC is "always the diver with the highest SAC." I will take those stats any day.
 
Mike,

Let's assume your data is correct (personally, I have no reason to doubt it). This means you and your buddies are able to breathe at a slower rate as depth increases. Let's assume for the sake of the argument that exercise activity, temperature, etc. have all been normed out by the averaging of the sac rates. Is there any theory which would explain the slower breathing at depth?

1. Do you (and your buddies) concentrate on conserving air more effectively at depth?

2. Physiologically -- and I'm no Doctor -- is an individually able to spread out breaths longer at depth naturally? I've only heard that co2 buildup causes the need to breath. I don't know if it is the %of co2 gas in the lungs or the absolute amount of co2 in the lungs that causes the need to breath. I could see, however, if it was the % of co2 in the lungs, that an individual might be able to slow down breathing at depth in a linear fashion. Let's say, at a constant easy activity rate I generate x grams of co2 per 10 seconds at the surface. At depth (say 33' for simplicity), with the same level of activity, I would still generate the same x grams/10 seconds. However, my lungs would contain twice the amount of other gasses (2g).

So x/2g (fraction of co2 at depth) is 1/2 x/g (the fraction of co2 in the lungs at the surface). Therefore, if breathing reaction is triggered by % of co2 (assumption which I don't have any idea if its true), I would feel less likely to need a breath at depth with the same time since last breath (assuming I was able to clear the lungs as efficiently at depth as at the surface with the last breath). Consequently, it would seem possible to slow down breathing at depth.

Of course, this all falls apart if it is the amount of co2 that triggers the need to breathe.

Maybe a doctor or biologist could provide comments to support or repudiate this theory?.

You forgot the effect depth has on a gas.......... PCO2 (Partial pressure of CO2).........:eyebrow:

:coffee:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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