GS400 or HD?

[DrBubbles1]

Hi All,
My Panasonic GS400 (pal version) has given good results over the last four years using manual white balance from the surface to ~40m with no filters in tropical waters (some wonderful dives in Sipadan, Sangalaki, Kakaban and Maratua atoll off Sabah and East Kalimantan).

I'm planning a trip ~October to Raja Ampat (West Papua), probably my last really fun trip for ~10 years pending kids (!) and was wondering what feedback people have on going to one of the new HD cameras from Sony (HDR-SR12?) or Canon(HF10?).

These cameras appear to have smaller aperture than the GS400, but maybe the newer technology has less noise, so it can make up for the lower light collecting power, and therefore justify going to the higher pixel density?

Does anyone have any short clips they can post of uncompressed footage from one of these compact HD cameras, say a few seconds on a busy reef at ~20m at noon? Or does anyone know of a link to something like this, or have info on a similar comparison?

Thanks for any advice!
Andrew

PS: The housing should not be too big a problem, my DIY housing is adaptable. and I have a plan for wb on the sr12.

 

[mjh]

Don't have a bright sample of HD but the following will give you some idea of the Sony HC7 HD in low light and night dive with lighting. We don't have a Blue Ray burner yet but the reef stuff we shot looked incredible at 720dpi can't wait to see it in 1080.

Sharks of Cocos and Malpelo Islands, Costa Rica on Vimeo

 

[DaFireMedic]

The GS400 was/is an exceptionally good SD camcorder, but obviously it lacks the resolution and video quality of the HD camcorders. The big factor for you underwater will be the low light capability, however. The GS400 should exceed the SR12 and HF10 in low light sensitivity, and therefore produce less noise at a given amount of light.

Anyway, in good light the HD camcorders will produce significantly better video (even when your final video will be in SD), for areas where light is less than ideal you may want to stick with the GS400. This is one of the few areas where I might recommend SD over HD, and only because the GS400 is such a good camcorder.

 

[DrBubbles1]

Thanks MJH for the link.... Wow! that is some exceptional footage! It certainly looks like the HC7 is capable of stunning results underwater.

Thanks DaFireMedic, I think based on that Cocos footage the low light ability should be sufficient for the majority of my dives in Raja Ampat. I agree, the GS400 is a great camera.

I just have to figure out which camera to get and how to implement white balance. I'm thinking of waterproofing the remote control somehow. It would probably survive in a condom, but depending on how the buttons are designed they my self actuate under the pressure. If there are no trapped air volumes then it may work without any modifications.

Thanks again for all you help.
Andrew

 

[diversteve]

I just have to figure out which camera to get and how to implement white balance. I'm thinking of waterproofing the remote control somehow. It would probably survive in a condom, but depending on how the buttons are designed they my self actuate under the pressure. If there are no trapped air volumes then it may work without any modifications.

I'm pretty certain that MWB is not accessible via the remote on Sony HDR series cameras. Not on my HC1 anyway...

Most housing mfr's that support MWB for Sony do so with a manual control that touches the LCD screen. Ikelite sells their controls if that's something you can incorporate into your housing. http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/control_parts.html

 

[DrBubbles1]

Thanks Steve. I looked up the remote control for the two cameras and the manual for the SR12 shows navigation buttons on the remote, so maybe this once can access MWB. I'll check in a store at the weekend. Anyone tried this yet? Failing that the Ikelite actuators look promising.

On the other hand, maybe I'm missing something about Sony cameras, and maybe the solution is the A/V socket: The web page for the SPK-HCD shallow water housing (see link below) says the HDR-SR12 can be controlled (power, zoom, still, record) via the A/V jack (but not WB), whilst the manual for the SR12 says it doesn't have LANC. Does the control part of the A/V jack on the SR12 use some protocol other than LANC? Maybe sending the LANC code for "reset wb" to the LANC-like pin on the A/V jack with the camera set to manual will actually set the MWB?! Can any other Sony camcorders can do MWB via the A/V jack?

LANC protocol:
(Reset white balance is: 28 77 in hex, if I interpreted the Sony LANC protocol correctly)
The SONY LANC(tm) protocol

Sony shallow water electronic control housing for HDR-SR12 (which although rated to 17ft, someone on Amazon has taken to 55ft)
SPK-HCD | Underwater Camcorder Sports Pack SPK-HCD | Sony | SonyStyle USA

 

[diversteve]

Thanks Steve. I looked up the remote control for the two cameras and the manual for the SR12 shows navigation buttons on the remote, so maybe this once can access MWB.

Just saw that. On my camera I can re-assign MWB to the top menu but you still need to "press" it to make changes. I wonder if that will allow you to move within the menu to electronically "press" MWB on the SR12 LCD screen.

whilst the manual for the SR12 says it doesn't have LANC. Does the control part of the A/V jack on the SR12 use some protocol other than LANC?

Don't know..

Maybe sending the LANC code for "reset wb" to the LANC-like pin on the A/V jack with the camera set to manual will actually set the MWB?

Wishful thinking..lol If it was that easy L&M or Amphibico would've likely figured that out.

Can any other Sony camcorders can do MWB via the A/V jack?

Don't know since the A/V jack has only been available on the more recent HDR cameras.

TopDawg has this note about using the SR12 with their housing. Afaik it uses LANC codes.

**10 pin A/V connection upgrade required for Top Dawg models purchased prior to May 2008. All Top Dawg housings shipping May 2008 wil come with 10 pin A/V connection compatibility.

This quote makes more sense in context so here's the page it's from: http://www.topdawgvideo.com/compatibility.htm

I may go to Scuba Show in Long Beach this weekend. If so I'll ask the Light & Motion (or Backscatter) rep. specifically how that works.

 

[DrBubbles1]

I just tried the remote on the HDR-SR12; no MWB! It lets you navigate most of the menu system but not the useful areas like exposure and white balance! You can't get to that particular sub menu with the remote. I tried going to the WB menu manually; then there are buttons but they don't highlight when you try to cursor around the screen with the remote, so still no luck.

I guess there is still a slim possibility the LANC code for MWB might be recognized on the AV connector, otherwise it looks like it'll require something mechanical. Did you get to talk with the rep from Light & Motion or Backscatter?

 

[diversteve]

otherwise it looks like it'll require something mechanical.

You can see how L&M is doing it in the "View a tutorial" video on their Bluefin HC7/9 feature page: Bluefin HC9 and HC7 They've got a rotary control that pushes the MWB option then rotates over to hit the One Push. Starts around 3:30 on the video.

Seems like you could do something similar with an Ikelite control rod and a little window.

Didn't get out to the show, I got stuck in Phoenix Saturday morning...