GUE Cave Training?

[NAM001]

Let me word it this way., your certs expire after 1 year, this allows you to take the next level of cave training. when you get the final level cert you keep it. There are some agencies that have a use it or loose it policy, including the final. There is only one agency that does not have one for the training pipeline process and that may be changing also.

Im not saying that 25 dives is hard to get in three years. Im simply saying I will only be in FL three years and could be anywhere in the world after that. All my tech training so far has been thru TDI but I am intrested in trying a GUE class. If I cant get back to FL for say 5 years I dont want to just lose my cert. Is there anyway to get the cert reinstated after it has expired? If for instance I didnt do any trimix dives for three years I wouldnt lose my TDI Trimix cert, it would be up to me to take things slow as I got back in to it and not just go attempt a 300' dive after such a long break.





Rob,
While im in FL I imagine I could log a few hundred cave dives over a three year period but my concern was if I leave the state for a few years I wouldnt have a valid cave cert anymore. Just wondering if anyone else has had this issue?

---------- Post added March 9th, 2013 at 02:21 PM ----------

Teller i just pm's you contact information for an instructor in fla for you. tell him i gave it ot you. I would take perhaps a year to go through the process of cavern to intro to apprentice to full cave diver. If you cant frog kick then forget it till you do. Tell him i said that and give him a chuckle.

I am in the Army and will be moving to Florida soon for about three years. I would like to get in to cave diving and I am considering taking fundies and then on to cave 1. My only concern is once I move again chances are I wont be near caves and unable to meet the 25 dives in order to renew. If my cert expires do I have to complete the entire course again?

 

[vicp]

Let me word it this way., your certs expire after 1 year, this allows you to take the next level of cave training. when you get the final level cert you keep it. There are some agencies that have a use it or loose it policy, including the final. There is only one agency that does not have one for the training pipeline process and that may be changing also.

GUE: highest Tech AND highest Cave - recert/renew every 3 years

NSS-CDS: Basic/Intro - doubles 18 months OR single tank with Y or H valve no time limit, Apprentice - 12 months?, Full - no time limit

NACD: Intro - doubles 12 months OR single with Y or H valve no time limit, Apprentice - 12 months, Full - no time limit
(does the intro doubles degrade to single or just expire? Seems to depend on who you ask in the NACD, - book says it degrades, but if you ask the Training Director he says it expires)???

TDI, NAUI, IANTD - no time limits that I am aware of

Which one do you lose your final with if not used? GUE?

Which (one?) may be changing?

 

[ucfdiver]

Honestly, if you haven't done cave diving in 3 years, is 2 days with an instructor really too much to ask? I don't think so.

 

[waynne fowler]

I did my cave training, it was some of the best training I've ever done. I did not do any cave dives for several years after that. Still I have zero regrets as much of what I learned played right into much of my other diving, it instilled a mindset as well as a skill set. When I did caves again I hired an instructor for an exteded refresher course (more like a mini cave class really). Again it was great fun and while it's been a couple years now since I've been and may be one more before I can go back I don't regret the $ spent. I'll be seeking another mini/extended refresher course when I go back. I may decide to just do the whole thing again.. we'll see.... IMO it doesn't matter if the plastic card expires, knowledge and skills have a shelf life... if you don't use them.. you will loose them... It would be foolish IMO to spend years away from a cave and not do a refresher before getting back in one.... that GUE certs expire makes sense especially when your talking about your tech certs... that other agencies (mine included) don't make tech certs contingent on doing tech dives IMO is a point of weakness not strength.

 

[TSandM]

I renewed my GUE cave cert, and I still plan, on my next trip, to spend the money to do a day of tune-up work with an instructor. It's simply been too long since I've been airgunned or done lights-out work, and it wouldn't hurt to have somebody rag on my technique, either.

If you don't like the idea of expiring certs, do your cave training with somebody else. I personally think it's a fabulous idea (though sadly, very easy to fake) because I think recency and continuous experience are important.

 

[Griffo]

I recently hit the water after an almost 8 month hiatus forced on me by a sinus infection. Prior that that layoff I was in the best diving form i've ever been, I felt truly dialed in and everything was very easy about diving. I couldn't wait to book in the next course with my instructor.

My first dive back a couple of weeks ago was embarrassing. I deliberately told my buddies (one certified cave and trimix, the other just OW) nothing about any kind of training apart from SSI. And I'm doubly glad as my trim, buoyancy and well, just about everything was to a level that I'm sure would have had me failing fundies. My comfort level was low, my SAC was high, everything required far too much concentration and effort, and if I posted a picture of my stops as shown by my dive computer, GUE HQ might just chase me down and tear up my card. The second dive was way better (no more saw-tooth stops), but still, my next few dives are going to be with a couple of local GUE divers doing skills, and nothing more. Once I'm feeling a little better, I'll probably also book in some tune-up dives with my instructor. I was really really surprised how badly my skills had diminished. Shocked in fact. Diving was not fun, it was hard work. Things that were automatic and sub-conscious previously required conscious mental effort.

Anyway, if I'd have been in any kind of environment that had required me to display a level of skill, I would have been a danger to myself and my team. As it was I was diving an artificial reef / wreck and came up with a number of rust stains on me. Not good.

It just re-affirmed for me that diving is a perishable skill, and that GUE's requirement of having divers submit dive-logs to keep their certs current is a considered decision.

 

[vicp]

Honestly, if you haven't done cave diving in 3 years, is 2 days with an instructor really too much to ask? I don't think so.

No, not really, but I do not need "momma" GUE to tell me that.

Any skill, if not used fairly often (daily or even every other day) will degrade. This goes for any sport, especially at the professional level. Try playing a competitive tennis match after a lay off of a week. Try playing a piano concert or an orchestral french horn part with a layoff of a week - it does not work. Doctors keep their medical degrees for life. Board certification (voluntary) is renewed every six or ten years. Pilots keep their licenses for life (but need to take medicals - every 1, 2, or 3 years along with biannual reviews and other currency requirement depending scope of operation). All of these skills require practice and currency - all at a level probably higher than recreational cave diving.

No issue with maintaining skills at the highest possible levels and seeking professional help to do it. But being told by a non-regulatory (read non-government) agency (read GUE) that I need to recert/renew every 3 years ALL my highest ratings in category and pay them to do it is silly, ridiculous, and smacks of cultism.

DIR (and I guess by extension GUE) was very helpful to me when I transitioned from recreational (read PADI on vacation diving) to technical diving with back mounted doubles with gear configuration (long hoses, back plates, hose routing, harnesses, etc.) but I have evolved since then (DIR hasn't). First things to go was the single piece webbing (very uncomfortable and hard to attach/detach backup lights) and the requisite amount of D-rings (I use the amount needed to accomplish what I want to do). The next to go was the whole BM doubles thing (I will still BM singles) in favor of side mount for just about all types of diving, except for maybe suiting up and jumping off a boat in 5 foot seas, although I have jumped in with cylinders side mounted quite easily. Getting up a ladder in those seas wearing double 104s, 108s, or larger is another story all together.

If DIR/GUE does not adapt to the evolution in diving and sticks with the dated dogma developed years ago by some excellent and very talented divers they stand to become irrelevant, if they are not that already.

 

[TSandM]

vicp, if you don't like GUE's policies and approach, you don't have to get your certs through that agency (and apparently you've moved on). I don't think it's fair to accuse them of being irrelevant, however, just because YOU felt you needed to go somewhere else for your diving. A good many of us find the approach quite useful and reasonable, and as I have posted several times in this thread, I don't mind the recency or requalification requirements at all. My husband just had to do a bunch of CLE to reactivate his legal license, after having been inactive for several years. I think it's a GOOD idea to do that, and to require it. Those of you who don't, don't have to do GUE classes.

The OP appeared to be interested in GUE cave training. He was worried about how he could maintain recency. He's gotten a bunch of advice on how to get it done, and what he would need to do if he didn't, and why the requirements are viewed by some of us as a good idea. I really don't think a general attack on GUE as an agency has a place here.

 

[Teller]

Sorry if I started a war here. Just to clarify I agree with expiring certs. I was only concerned about what is needed once it does expire because I will not be able to get back to FL often. I cant live in FL for a few years and not end up cave diving though. Thank you for all that posted your advice.

 

[JamesK]

Are you giving up side mount?