GUE Open Water Diver Course?

[mddolson]

Spectre bubbled: How many training dives in OW, AOW, etc, truely have buddy teams.

I guess I may be old school, but I have a simple rule in my classes. If you can't reach out and touch your buddy. They get one warning. If caught in class (pool) it costs them both lapps.

If it habitual in O/W, and is more than momentary they fail. Propper use of the buddy system is required skill. They have to repeat their o/w training at their expense.

MikeD
:blfish:

 

[jonnythan]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
In theory, other than horizantal ascents and descents these skills are being tought. However...
Buddy/team diving skills are usually only given lip service.

the way streamlining, buoyancy control and finning techniques are usually tought is an absolute joke.

I could go on for many pages and have in the past.

Maybe some instructors teach those skills, but it's certainly not the norm at all.

I'd like to think that if GUE did offer OW courses the instructors would actually spend time discussing and practicing proper weighting, buoyancy, assorted kicks, and buddy skills.

 

[Spectre]

mddolson once bubbled...
I guess I may be old school, but I have a simple rule in my classes. If you can't reach out and touch your buddy. They get one warning. If caught in class (pool) it costs them both lapps.

Ok yea... it really is more an instructor thing and what the instructor chooses to enforce... The more I think about it, the more I see the dives with good enforcement of buddy pairs and the dives with bad enforcement weren't really course deliminated, but rather instructor deliminated.

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All and all, despite my personal feelings towards DIR and GUE, I think the idea of a GUE OW course is a really good idea... Everyone has their complaints about the different agencies, and nothing'll change until someone decides to step up and shake the industry up a bit. GUE can be that catalyst as long as the political issues are handled correctly...

 

[Epinephelus]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
There is no one on this board that can answer that question... but if you really want an answer it would probably be better to ask it at www.gue.com ...you might want to leave off the last part as it makes your inquiry sound less than sincere.

Well, I'm probably not very sincere... more idle curiosity than "really want[ing] an answer" - from what I've seen GUE is anathema to my "diving for fun" philosophy, and while I think they're likely the cat's meow for technical diving - where I have no particular interest - I sort of doubt they'll ever join RSTC because at the very heart of their philosophy there's very little room for recreation (re-creation... fun... rebirth... escape) as I see it.
I'm more like a little kid in a playpen - I set my limits very, very conservatively and then have a blast doing whatever I want to within them. Think "CESA always an option."
Somehow I don't see a GUE instructor ever saying "Don't worry... be happy."
E. merra

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think it's more of a quality control issue. The industry has responded to the lions share of the market and the competition (at least as they view it). I would expect that if GUE ever has enough instructors to be a driving force in the industry rather than a subtle alternative they will eventually have the same problems.

As more divers seek out GUE OW training more facilities and instructors will see GUE instructor status in order to offer this product. As demand increased so will the push to put more instructors on the ground. And of course the mainstay of any facility trying to compete is equipment sales. to date the GUE hasn't faced any of these issues. If their growth continues they may be the ones getting the education.

Read the standards of any agency. even if they have philisophical differences none aim to put out divers who can't dive, Instructors and shops do that.

They will not be able to travel the world teaching OW the way they do their other courses. Why? One reason is they need a pool. In order to have a viable OW program they will need to get into the dive shops. To do that they will have to take an interest in the shops ability to offer a saleable product and compete (SELL EQUIPMENT). For survival sake they may find themselves "looking the other" way just like the other agencies.

This is all speculation but their philosophy and resolve hasn't been tested in the open market. Certified divers who frequent chat sites and who are not satisfied with their skills seek out the DIRF. Non-divers who seek a card for a caribbean trip only seek the card. I know because I try to sell a longer more thourough and in some cases more expensive class. The students who buy it are glad while the others don't know the difference. Nine out of ten times the initial discussions turn to cost and scheduling. Some who pass up the better class come back later if they realize their mistake or come in for another class and then are hit with the magnitude of the difference. Others are happy to strole alomg the reef looking at the fishies.

 

[Butch103]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...



They would be DIR; BP and Harness, appropriate length hoses, etc. GUE is strict DIR so, their OW classes would be too. I don't think they would let anyone get away with using some silly type of gear. Doubt the Nitrox part.

need an answer on this one......

"Regarding the gear -- if it is an OW course, they will be flexible with gear. Heck, you can take DIRF now with a jacket BC (there was a womna in my class with one), but they do want you to have a primary hose that is at least 5' long and the back-up "necklaced". They will look at your gear and make suggestions, but if your goals are "rec", than they are offered as suggestions. If you are moving into riskier tech or cave diving courses, then yes, they will be more stingent in their gear requirements."

Large_Diver...glad to hear this...From all the posts I have read this is the first time I have heard that they will "allow" non-DIR standard config......Nice to know they are not zealots but willing to work and advise /suggest to people. Although for one m inute I didn't think they wouldn't, but, again I haven't ever seen this statement...... :boom:

 

[wb416]

Epinephelus once bubbled...
- from what I've seen GUE is anathema to my "diving for fun" philosophy,

All of the "game day" (non-training) dives that I've done since taking any classes from GUE have been very enjoyable for me, moreso than they were prior. These include mostly wreck and reef-type dives.

In fact, after one particular set of dives where there was a very slight current that allowed us to comfortably drift along the wreck/artificial reef, I had someone ask me after the dive if I was having any fun because my buddy and I looked "too posed" (there was really no reason to move hands or fins about, so I guess we looked like maniquins floating horizontally through the water).

Quite frankly, it was liberating and relaxing to be able to drift along in a horizontal position while studying the biodiversity on this site. My face was close to the soft corals and my eyes were scanning constantly for some of the cool macro life like the frogfish we barely picked out. I got tremendous enjoyment out of that dive, due mostly to the fact that I wasn't futzing around with gear and was "quieter" throughout the dive.

While it would only be a guess on my part, because I don't know your diving skill or style, I doubt you would find GUE training to be antithesis to your fun. It sure hasn't impinged on my fun, but instead has enhanced it.

wb

 

[MHK]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
some speculation as to when there might be a GUE entry level OW course.
I'm curious too. Is GUE planning to join the RSTC? Head off on its own? Have a fairly conventional course or begin with Nitrox/BP/Wings redundant regs and the full "DIR" get-up?
The questions abound...
Rick

Rick,

We are beta teasting the program as we speak, but as I 've noted we are about a year or so away.. We are still building the infastructre, we still will need more instructors and the S & P's have yet to be finalized.. We don't want to do it quickly we want to do it right so I suspect it won't be for a year or so..

As we are teaching now we do believe in the BP & wings, but the equipment S & P has yet to be finalized so it's too premature for me to comment..

Hope that helps..

Later

 

[jonnythan]

That's all true, and I'm sure GUE would suffer the same problems if they were as large as SSI or PADI.

However, I was just responding to your comment that the skills "are already taught."

IME, they're *not*. Maybe some places they are.. I'd be a happy person if we were all able to take your OW class. I think there are some people who want to see a higher standard of training in OW classes, and GUE seems to be the agency that has across-the-board top notch instruction with a real skill set.... and I think people would like to see all OW students held to a standard closer to that.

Right now, they're not.

 

[ElectricZombie]

Butch103,

Silly gear is the stuff you see on a lot of divers. Gear that is in poor condition, ill fitting or not suited to the task at hand. A good example is people that show up with these plastic masks from Walmart for their first OW class. They really think they got a good deal. Or when they show up gear that was borrowed and will clearly not fit their body type. Or those tiny fins used for swimming laps in the pool. Snorkels with pictures of muppets on them.

If GUE did an OW class, I'm sure they would have some sort of equiptment standards. Maybe not strict DIR but some standard that elmiminates the above problems. Plus, I think that new divers seem to be critical of the BP and Harness anyway.