Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark

[Custer]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
Not at all, I said it look's disquieting. If you love it, great, I'm glad it works for you. I don't think I'd find it comfortable.

Let's say, that you're motating along, and with your set-up, as good as it is, you snag something on the right side. Even if it's a one in a thousand chance, let's say it happens. You're drifting with a mild current. Is there not going to be a twisting action on the neck if you do not let go of the mouthpiece immeadately?

No more so than your 33" hose, which is far more likely to snag something. The long hose contacts the body it's entire length, save a few inches at the 1st stage.

The assumptions you have about long hose routing, comfort and use all come from lack of first hand experience, so it's no wonder you've reached the concusion you have. From your point of view, it's perfectly logical.

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
I'm not saying I won't try it at some point, I'm just saying I'm having a great time diving the way I do now, with my gear the way it is now, and I don't think that I'd find that rig comfortable, right now.

My dive gear has evolved through several phases to be exactly what I want, tailored to my diving style and environments. Truly groovy. It in no way resembles my first rig, or it's first evolution after 2-300 dives. You can only reach this point by experimenting, and one can't do that by summarily dismissing things one hasn't tried, on the assumption one won't like them.

Here's a frinstance. My first fins were Tusa Liberators, and I though they were just great. My entire criteria for buying them (with $1600 worth of other gear) was shorts the sales girl was wearing. One day my friend borrowed them and told me they were the most piss poor fins he ever wore. Of course, I immediately bristled and expounded all their virtues, and it was from pride of ownership, and ignorance (like Zeagle and BMW owners...). But my friend ain't stupid, and it got me to wondering. So I got several kinds of fins, literally all styles that were available to me, and compared them, timed underwater pool sprints. I noticed some caused cramps, some were more comfortable, some were more powerful. The more I tested, the more involved it got, till I started taking notes. I narrowed it down to 5 types, and re-tested.

Upshot was, the Liberators compared so poorly to all the other fins but one, it was amazing. I don't know how many times I recommended them to other divers, I just hope they all don't catch me at once. There was a Dacor fin, a Jet look-a-like, who's only suitable use is to be cut into wedges for holding open doors.

I still see people diving those Liberators and Dacors, and it's all I can do to keep my mouth shut.

So you may be perfectly satisfied with your rig, but until you compare, you really don't know. If a diver were to say "I don't care if better is to be had, I'm satified with what I use", I'd just raise an eyebrow and move on. But I wonder then, if they actually feel that way, why they feel the need to debate the point.

Someone please start two polls today, one for long hoses, one for backplates.

The hose poll should ask how many people have actually tried a long hose for 10 dives, and switched back to short hose.

The backplate poll should ask how many people tried a backplate for 10 dives, and would rather dive that than a BC (unlike a long hose, a BP/W set up is not something most people can just run out and buy).

I'd do it if I knew how.

You'll find that my point makes itself.

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
And my beef with the entire board is that there is too much discussing of this, and not enough discussing of "what happened when I was in the water today". And yes, I do get sucked into it, and contribute my debates, as well. *sigh*

Because it's you and I that educate the masses. Unless these questions are asked, we're all doomed to PADI OW NDL dives in Dacor poodle jackets.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

JohnCollins once bubbled...

I also agree with you, I can't figure out why folks think the Air2 is so complicated. Being in the same position all the time and being easily deployed is in keeping with DIR principles even though it is not DIR. Passing off the primary on a 5" hose, sticking the Air2 in my mouth and using my right shoulder dump instead of the elevated BC hose is simplicity itself. I never used to think about practicing with the octo and my buddy, frankly (it seemed too simple), until I started reading the DIR stuff. Oh, I have a ring of the wooly velcro on the BC corrugated hose and a hook patch on the BC to keep the thing from dragging around--streamlining as per DIR principles.

Under the circumstances you describe, and assuming no additional failures, the AIR2 may function as intended. However, and without getting into the usual DIR/anti-DIR debate, there are a couple of issues to consider.

1. In my experience, which includes diving a Zeagle Octo+ power inflator/octo for a few months and working with students and other divers who have purchased other manufacturers' versions, the Octo/power inflator is a very low performance regulator that does not breathe particularly well at depth.

I want a higher performance reg as my backup, particularly since I'm the person who will be breathing it. To that end, my doubles rig uses matched ATX200's. My single rig has an ATX50 as a backup. In both cases, the backups are tuned to manufacturer's spec, then set using the second stage adjustments to prevent any free flow. I like the fact that I won't be hindered by a lower performance reg if I am in an emergency.

2. Adding the pull dump adds a failure point. While the chance of failure is admittedly small, it still exists. Moreover, since the effect of a failure is potentially very bad, it makes sense to eliminate it.

With regard to the complaints regarding the trademark registration, they are largely unfounded. As WJL said, trademarks protect a company's use of distinctive marks to identify its products. Marks can range from symbols to phrases to words to the "look and feel" of a product or the layout and color scheme of a restaurant.

Halcyon claims that the relevant market associates the phrases it seeks to register with Halcyon's products and services. If the registration is granted, Halcyon will be able to prevent others from using the registered marks, or marks that are confusingly similar, in trade or commerce. Halcyon will also be able to license the use of the mark to others, such as GUE, for their own use.

Think of it this way. When you hear something about the "Doing It Right Company" in the context of diving, do you think of Oxycheq, OMS or Halcyon? It doesn't matter whether you disagree with DIR and the way it is promoted, whether you like Halcyon's products or whether other people make products that would qualify as DIR compliant. What matters is the name of the company that pops into your head when you hear the phrase.

Just my thoughts.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Custer once bubbled...

My entire criteria for buying them (with $1600 worth of other gear) was shorts the sales girl was wearing.

You mean there is another reason to buy gear?

 

[scywin]

JohnCollins once bubbled...


Yep, I did the exact same thing. Read some posts here, got the DIR-Fundamentals book and next trip to the LDS, got a long hose. That's an example of some of their thinking that makes a ton of sense to me and caused me to start practicing differently.


JPC

Sounds like you and I agree. We may not be a majority, but I think we have a plurality! LOL

 

[Otter]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
1. In my experience, which includes diving a Zeagle Octo+ power inflator/octo for a few months and working with students and other divers who have purchased other manufacturers' versions, the Octo/power inflator is a very low performance regulator that does not breathe particularly well at depth.

Wondering how much of an performance hit I would take, I tried my DUO-Air at 120fsw in Cozumel. I noticed NO difference in breathing over my ATX-200. I recently obtained an Atomic SS1 and will be testing it out at depth this weekend. I will let you know how it works.

 

[JohnCollins]

There's no performance hit with the Scubapro Air2. It's the equivalent of their R380 second stage, if it's properly adjusted. Mine is properly adjusted and it breaths great at depth. You don't compare it to the Scubapro S600 or equivalent. If you compare it to what most folks hang around your neck and the Air2 is properly maintained and adjusted, I don't think many divers would take issue with it's breathing ability.

That's not true of all models like it, however, so I am not arguing with Northeastwrecks experience with his Zeagle. I've read the Oceanic model is a very good breather, too.