Help !! Decision on Natural Gas Port off LBTS is close.

[John_B]

What is the actual residential natural gas usage in South Fla? My guess is that is probably pretty low. I'd bet this is for some commercial usage and that alternatives exist. Turkey Point already exists, it sits right off the Key Biscayne Aquatic Preserve. I'm sure there is an LNG market but I can't for the life of me imagine why it would need to come onshore at Ft. Lauderdale. Given that this would be a strategic asset I wonder what effect it would have on recreational access and what dredging activities during construction would do to the reefs?

I agree with T Boone Pickens on at least one point, gas fired power plants are probably not the most strategic long-term use for natural gas or liquified natural gas.

Most disturbing to me is that this, by definition, increases our dependence on foreign energy resources.

 

[Charlie99]

How can fossil fuels be the answer? What about CO2 do we really want to support emissions of more greenhouse gasses?

CO2 emissions of LNG-powered electrical generation plant is significantly less than that of a coal fired power plant of the same output. Oil-fired power plant has less CO2 emissions than coal, but more than LNG. Nuclear has the lowest (even though if you look at total life cycle CO2 emissions of construction, maintenance, and decomissioning the CO2 emissions are significant) of any viable large scale facility other than windmills (which also have signficant CO2 life cycle emissions, although less than LNG).

As I posted above, the other option to using fossil fuels is to simply reduce electricity and energy consumption. The best, most effective way to reduce your electrical consumption would be to double or quadruple your electricity rates and to graduallly raise gasoline prices to the $5+/gallon range.

 

[deepstops]

Deepstops,

Apparently, it doesnt just evaporate. Occording to the pdf provided by USCG there were approximately 25 incidents with LNG. 13 were classified as SPILLS. Another 3 were classified as N/A ? Seems like statistically, the majority are spills.

Unless it's kept below -160F, it becomes a gas that's lighter than air.
That's 25 incidents in over 60 years of record keeping. A only a few were even in the US.

May I suggest a little primer on the subject: http://www.ferc.gov/for-citizens/citizen-guides/citz-guide-lng.pdf

 

[deepstops]

LNG is a better choice then the other fuel sources right now. It produces allot less greenhouse gases as oil and coal.

Agreed

The better solution to LNG is nuclear. 0 greenhouse gas emission. So where do you want to put one up in FLA. ]

We have three, Turkey Point, Crystal River Three, and Sewells Point (St. Lucie).

 

[tropicaledit]

This is my last post on the matter, I've stated my opinion on it. I just think that it doesnt have to be constructed OFFSHORE. The same plant or system can be built on land, with less possible impact to the community and environment. And shoturtle, spare me the "do your research" crap.

 

[Charlie99]

I agree with T Boone Pickens on at least one point, gas fired power plants are probably not the most strategic long-term use for natural gas or liquified natural gas.

It depends what you mean by "long-term". 100 years from now people will be amazed that we actually burnt valuable hydrocarbon feedstock.

But IMO, gas fired power plants make really good sense over the next 20 or 30 years as we gradually reduce our per-capita energy consumption and increase alternative energy supplies.

I'm not that optimistic on our ability to quickly bring online significant amounts of alternative energy, having watched the multi-year fiasco of the Nantucket wind farm project that has been blocked by people such as Senator Ted Kennedy, who is in favor of wind power, as long as it can't be seen on the horizon from his Hyannis, Ma compound. Two other projects in my Mass. neighborhood are similarly running into trouble. Meanwhile, in Maui the owner/operator of the first significant windfarm there cannot get state PUC approval to expand --- due to problems of the island grid having too high of percentage of its power being the rapidly varying windpower.

It's kind of like the false choice some politicians are presenting: "Drill or conserve". The real answer is to do both.

 

[John_B]

The better solution to LNG is nuclear. 0 greenhouse gas emission. So where do you want to put one up in FLA.

Let me guess, you've never been to Homestead? Or on a boat somewhere between Miami and Key Largo?

 

[shoturtle]

If you know how natural gas works, you would not use 60 year old data to support you point. Also to build the plant on land, you would strip more of the natural wetlands to put that facility's. Really not to green, when Florida is try to restore the natural water cycle to the state.

 

[Charlie99]

This is my last post on the matter, I've stated my opinion on it. I just think that it doesnt have to be constructed OFFSHORE. The same plant or system can be built on land, with less possible impact to the community and environment.

And reasonable people disagree with you as to the relative potential impacts of an offshore facility versus one located in an urban area.

For a specific pair of onshore and offshore facilities to compare, look at the Everett, MA facility located right in the heart of Boston harbor with ships transiting downtown, vs. the Neptune offshore facility 20miles from Boston, 10 miles from Glouster. Apparently, you would prefer the Everett, MA facility. I prefer the offshore one.

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Does anybody have real information as to the distance to the reef closest to the LNG facility?

 

[shoturtle]

Actually I know Florida has Nuclear power plants, but right now is takes forever to get approval to get one built. And there are still allot of people oppose to them, and it is easier to get a lng plant then a nuclear power plant. And how many people in the Fort Lauderdale area want one at port everglade.

Yes I have a very good friend in the Miami area. I have taken the Florida TPK from Miami to the Keys.