Hogarthian rig balancing

[RainPilot]

The rule of thumb I always had was to mix and match metals, so Aluminium plate with steel tanks and vice versa, to avoid buoyancy issues. I'm sure its not a hard and fast rule but has worked for me so far...

I suspect a wet 7mm and steel plate with steel tanks will lead to a pretty marginal lift situation at depth with a smaller wing. I would definitely look at getting that rig lighter

 

[Bob DBF]

Check actual buoyancy of the Wing on the rig. I notice my Qxycheq oval wing can not expand fully when sandwiched between the plate and tank so it will not give it's full rated buoyancy when inflated. This may come into play if you need 24# of buoyancy and get a 24# wing, something to think about anyway.

Bob

 

[lowviz]

Running lift right up to the max capability of the wing inserts another variable into normal usage, your wing's OPV. It can be annoying when you really want a bit more lift but get a curtain of bubbles instead.

30# Oxycheq Mach V. Make sure your plate mates up before you buy. Borrow one, they are everywhere....

 

[stuartv]

My question is, why are positively buoyant floatation materials not attached to a HOG rig to adjust rig buoyance in a less flocculating, more fail safe, and more streamlined manner than through an air inflated wing?

You only asked this one question. And I think the answer is: Because people generally select their tank(s), BP, and exposure protection in such a way that, with no additional weighting they are not so negative that they need dedicated flotation attached to their rig.

You are using a pretty special combo that makes you that much negative without any lead.

DGX has a DR XT Lite BP on scratch-n-dent special for $70 right now. If I didn't already have a lightweight plate, I would have already snatched that one up.

Dive Rite XT Lite SS Backplate (Scratches & Blemishes) | Dive Gear Express®

The XT Lite is only 2.5#. The DSS Kydex plate is only something 0.5# negative. So, that would be even better for you. But, the price on that Kydex plate is a little hard to swallow (for me, anyway)!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't know why people over think this so much?
The sum total combination of tank weight, plate weight, and weight belt weight should allow you to hold a stop at 15' at the END of the dive with around 300 to 500 psi remaining in your tank and an empty wing. Some people like to not have a weightbelt and figure out all weight needed on their rig. Some people like to minimize their rig weight and carry more on a weightbelt for emergency ditch reasons, whatever,,,, in the end, whatever method you choose you should be able to hold the afore mentioned stop at 15 feet with whatever combo you choose.
The other thing is make sure your wing is big enough to float your rig on the surface. If you choose to put all your ballast on your rig you'll need a bigger wing, and make sure to get a wing big enough to compensate for wetsuit crush at depth. The deeper you go using a wetsuit the more you have to think about lift, and also if you can bail yourself out if your wing ever crapped out. Not being able to get to the surface because you went too deep in a wetsuit and had no ditchable weight would really suck. For this reason a lot of people that dive wet and go deep believe in ditchable weight, but then that brings up the whole fast ascent to surface and getting bent thing, or better bent and alive debate.
Probably not a good idea to go too deep wet.
A bigger wing also means more drag so there are trade offs.
Other than that the pool's open.
Have fun!

 

[seeker242]

Does Hogarthian philosophy have anything to say about diving thick wetsuits in heavy steel tanks to begin with?

 

[tbone1004]

Does Hogarthian philosophy have anything to say about diving thick wetsuits in heavy steel tanks to begin with?

yup, and it's one word, Drysuit. IIRC they don't advocate diving thick wetsuits period, and they don't advocate diving steels in wetsuits.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well I guess we don't have too many Hogarthian divers in Northern California then because most people here dive wet with steels. As long as the weighting all balances out I see no difference in diving an aluminum with added ballast accordingly, or using a steel tank with less added ballast to the same overall balance, I see no difference keeping in mind the max depth at which a person can swim up said rig, provided the rig has ALL the ballast attached as non ditchable weight, but again, in Norcal I see weightbelts. Most of the DIR guys who follow Hog principles start about Monterey and go down from there. We don't have them here.
Perhaps double steels may be a different story, but wet steel singles within reason is fine. I think huge gas weight swings may be more in line with Hogarthian principles i.e., massive amounts of gas stuffed into large doubles and non ditchable weight, but we don't dive like that.

 

[tbone1004]

sorry, the doubles was meant to be implied since it's required for basically all of their courses. Single tanks is different, but it stems deeper than aluminum vs steel, it's more gas capacity. If you had an aluminum 130 that floated, it wouldn't be any different than a steel 130, you're still carrying a lot of gas weight that when compounded with something like a 7mm farmer john creates a rig that you can't kick to the surface if your wing fails. You can check with the official DIR guys on their current standings

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

sorry, the doubles was meant to be implied since it's required for basically all of their courses. Single tanks is different, but it stems deeper than aluminum vs steel, it's more gas capacity. If you had an aluminum 130 that floated, it wouldn't be any different than a steel 130, you're still carrying a lot of gas weight that when compounded with something like a 7mm farmer john creates a rig that you can't kick to the surface if your wing fails. You can check with the official DIR guys on their current standings

I agree, total gas weight is the key, not Al vs S.
I have a buddy in Socal that used to be DIR but he isn't anymore, the only thing be retained is long hose bungeed backup but he's turned wet steel, monster bug diver/spearo, scallop hound, solo diver. Not even a can light!
When I go down to visit him he has a steel 130 for me waiting and we get on charter boats diving wet. Our dives aren't deep only max maybe 50' but we cover all kinds of ground looking for stuff to eat. So in our case 130 steel works but we weight accordingly. I know guys in Socal diving with no BC during bug season in wetsuits with monster water heaters strapped to their backs, no problem, I don't know how they do it but they do it. Obviously they have their weight tuned in so well they know exactly their max depth. Of course we're talking about a hard bottom too with no sudden deep surprises.