Hollis Prism 2 CCR

[FloridaScubaDepot]

Hey Sunnyboy,

I know a number of Canadian divers who come down to Florida on a regular basis. Not sure if you may or not.... but I'll be glad to show you the units when available or give additional details hopefully this fall if we get a trial unit or two.

Myself & another one of my instructors went to the Hollis Prism 2 training back in January. (Where a number of the change discussions may have started!) Hopefully we are in que for some of the first units available so we can gain hours to get our Prism 2 instructor ratings.

I'm anxious to get going on these!

 

[Jon Nellis]

Hi Nick,

The new Prism is sounding quite appealing, but as someone who has designed bleeding edge ROV systems and similar products and seen the numerous design changes that normally follow what we used to call the "proto-duction" phase, what will the warranty/rework policy be on the first few production runs until the bugs are worked out.

Hopefully it will be better than another company that recently introduced a new CCR that my friend got, only to have to spend a couple thousand dollars eight months later to replace the three computers with newer version that didn't malfucntion in cold water causing the O2 injector to stay open at 160'.

Also if you are interested in a better material than ABS, take a look at a material called Isoplast from Dow Chemicals. We used it on injection molded parts silimar (almost identical) to a scrubber housing. Besides being a whole lot tougher that ABS, it has a better surface finish for seals and it can be molded as a clear/transparent material so you can see what's inside to tell if there's a leak with out opening the container, thus creating a leak if one wasn't there already. This was one of it's best features. It may even work in your ABS molds, but I don't remember the shinkage values. One of the downsides to it, is that all medium to large threads need to be molded in as it doesn't like to be tapped and small fasteners are better as self tapping screws. It does machine OK, still best off designing the mold to avoid post ops.

Hopefully everything goes well for you and Santa Claus likes me this Christmas.

Jon

 

[Jon Nellis]

Isoplast continued. . .

The material is Isoplast 301, Same shrinkage as most ABS (.50% vs .55%). The other nice thing about it is that since it is has excellent clarity, it makes QA a breeze as you can see any voids, moisture or cold flow. It does take some tweeking of the runners, mold temp and shot speed to get perfect parts, but it's time saved in QA and peace of mind knowing the part is flawless. It was chosen over polycarbonate after testing, as it had better chemical resistance with similar mechanical properties and better failure mode when tested to destruction.

Hope you consider it and no, I'm not a salesman for it. It would just be nice to see inside the scrubber.

 

[silent running]

It would just be nice to see inside the scrubber.

Hello Jon, unless Hollis is planing on doing something different with the Prism 2 scrubber housing, the current model is already made of a clear plastic. This is very helpful for inspecting the seals and alleviates the need to do pressure tests after changing the scrubber, not to mention allowing you to see if there's a normal amount of moisture in the scrubber between dives.

From talking with the Prism's original designer, there are many concerns in selecting a material for a CCR, including it's hardness, consistency of curing, expansion/contraction over large temperature ranges and off-gassing. It took him quite a while to come up with the composition of the current Prism. But maybe there are new materials like Isoplast that are worth looking into. Hopefully Hollis is aware of all the options and will give us the latest rundown of which materials are suitable for use in the Prism 2 and why... -Andy

 

[Jon Nellis]

I'll admit I am not the least bit familiar with the original prism, so it's good to hear that it had a clear housing as that shows someone was thinking. My familiarity lies only with other unnamed manufactures that have black and tan housings (yum, black and tan) Watching my buddies shake their units (I mean reabreathers) to tell if there was water in them is a rather disappointing commentary on the thought that went into the design of a $7000 - $10,000 piece of equipment.

I'll refrain from drifting too far off topic, ranting about other design short comings, but let me assure you that I'm more than familiar with what it takes to design underwater equipment. The application we used the isoplast material on was a low pressure hydraulic reservoir/electronics compensator that saw service down to 20,000 ft deep and temps from -20 to +200 deg F.

(last rant)
The main thing that peeves me is when an engineer or designer (not just limited to diving equipment) uses either of these excuses to explain their design:
1 "...but that's the way we've always done it." If everyone thought that way we would not be enjoying this board as the computer would not have been invented and your mail would still be coming pony express.
2 "it's good enough" means that person lacks the skill, insight and/or motivation to make it GREAT. (or there is some short sighted manager whos only worry is the schedule, directing them)

But enough about that, back to the original question for Hollis, what are the plans for the (almost guaranteed to happen) "upgrade/rework/warranty" policy until the bugs are worked out? Remember, the folks that discover issues with the new units are really helping you with product refinement and will hopefully be well taken care of. Just don't leave the rest out in the cold when in a couple years they discover the same issue that was fixed prior to the second or third production run.

Jon

 

[silent running]

I'll admit I am not the least bit familiar with the original prism, so it's good to hear that it had a clear housing as that shows someone was thinking.

Yes Jon, the Prism was designed by an actual engineer and benefits from a long history of accumulated knowledge. The design has many unique features which enhance it's safety and ease of use. Your skepticism/"ranting" about the low quality of many CCR designs is welcome and understandable given the price of most CCRs and the obvious responsibility that comes with designing life support.

I'm glad you have first hand experience with Isoplast in marine applications and I hope Hollis will take a look at it, as they should.

But enough about that, back to the original question for Hollis, what are the plans for the (almost guaranteed to happen) "upgrade/rework/warranty" policy until the bugs are worked out? Remember, the folks that discover issues with the new units are really helping you with product refinement and will hopefully be well taken care of. Just don't leave the rest out in the cold when in a couple years they discover the same issue that was fixed prior to the second or third production run.

100% agree. All CCR manufacturers would do well to take these factors into account and too often they do not. In such a small community/market, brand loyalty matters all the more and can only be enhanced by rewarding those who are the 1st to buy a product which promises so much... -Andy

 

[Lake_Tahoe_Diver]

Any word on this rebreather?

 

[rigdiver]

Any word on this rebreather?

Only two weeks till DEMA. Maybe we'll get some more concrete news then.

 

[Hollis Gear Nick]

Hi Guys,

We will have the new Prism2 unit on display at Dema in a few weeks. Everything from the first look of newly engineered parts to our scheduled ship date will be unveiled at that time.

Thanks for your patience.

 

[hyrax]

Hi Guys,

We will have the new Prism2 unit on display at Dema in a few weeks. Everything from the first look of newly engineered parts to our scheduled ship date will be unveiled at that time.

Thanks for your patience.

So I've seen pictures of the new parts but I still haven't seen a ship schedule. Any info yet?