Home land security ?

[Scubaguy62]

Oh and training and real supervision cost money and time and create higher salaried employees... and more effective employees; but in some cases it's better to say "We've created a great number of jobs!", Than it is to say we've created skilled well paying jobs.
Which will get you votes?

Definitely the former.

***I have just been informed on another thread by mempilot, that in fact these folks are quite well paid, so I guess
the problem is they're under-skilled, under-trained,
and under-supervised.
I stand, happily corrected, if a bit confused.

Tom

Tom, let me add to your confusion a little.

When the TSA was accepting applicants (a little over 2 yrs ago), I applied and was selected as a candidate for supervisor (mainly based on my experience with AA), but placed on a pool. My name was to be in the pool for a period of 24 months after which, if not selected, I would have to re-apply. The application procedure was two full days of testing, interviewing and mind games, only to get the government's proverbial "hurry up and wait" response.

During the application process I ran into many people I knew at the MIA airport, who worked for the security company that ran the check point machines, and which paid their employees minimum wage. So, if we're to say these people are well paid based on what they earn now compared with what they were earning before, then the answer is yes. But if we're to believe that they're being well paid, chew on this, my profession does not affect the security of many, yet my salary is about 30% higher than the starting salary of a TSA supervisor; I only work 37.5 hrs per week; I get my health insurance paid for by my firm, and have weekends off.

I don't think they're well paid at all, and they're definitely undertrained and underskilled. Only that they have a "government badge" under which they seek shelter to harass people unnecessarily and perhaps to the extent of borderline unconstitutional. Typical napoleonic behavior..." I don't amount to much, but I have the power to mess with you."

 

[Green_Manelishi]

ok you obviously have a point to grill me over so im gonna let this one slide, because its like talking to a wall, it accomplishes nothing because ithe wall is not open to any ideas other then its own.

ok if you think my ideas/ideals are to much what is you suggestion for changes in the TSA to prevent theft of baggage and the hassle caused by such thefts of checked baggage. Also Making people walk through medal dectectors who are wheel chair dependent (like mentioned in this thread), or wanding the 5 year old, or even TSA agent interpretting rules and regs of the TSA so they can rat through some persons bag because they have the power to do so. then finally why agents wont answer a simple question on why something is being taken from them.

also whats wrong with profiling its done by other major airlines(el Al) in the world and is done by the US government with its Do not fly list.

as for proactive measures lets see, the bomb and more advanced scanners should have been in place years ago, as they have been in place in the UK and europe for decades. How about decent training for agents on customer service and proper ettiquite when dealing with people who pay your salary. how about having intelligence agencys to be able to effectively be able to communicate information to the right people so tragedy is avoided (FBI field reports to the NYC office months before 9/11).

in response to one of your questions is arriving hours before the flight, this is already the case around the world as when i was in the UK several years ago i have a 8am flight back to NYC and had to get to the airport at 5am to make it through checkin, and im used to waiting to get through security which i dont have a problem with but my problem is when those who are supposed to be protecting us take in on them selves to handle property that isnt theres and handles it in such a way that results in damage that they arent willing to pay for even though they damaged it.

also how about this if you think TSA is such a great idea, whats your opinon of not being able to lock our bags being checked so nothing is stolen and for "our safety". when not but a couple of weeks ago a handful of TSA agents were thrown in jail for theft from baggage (of items ranging from pens to expensive laptops.)

I have gone in circles over this with you and im gonna stop because you are just to closed minded of a indivdual who isnt open to others opinons

FWIW

Tooth

Dude, chill. I've also been hastled by security ... long before 9/11. Probably due to the "high and tight", dark glasses, dark clothes, etc. The irony is that while they jazzed me about a keychain, pens, etc. and wanded me up the yin-yan I carried
a knife, in plain view, through the checkpoints.

Even before 9/11 they rely on technology, not technique and they "get what they pay for" in too many cases. Real security is not purchased at bargain basement prices nor is it a cursory, random pawing through someone's (probably) dirty laundry.
Real security costs $$$ and time. But again, most folks (and perhaps you are an exception) don't want to deal with either situation.

So, deal with it, stop flying or write your Congressman and tell him (or her) that security concerns need to be taken seriously and TSA personnel need to be professionals in every sense of the word not just badge carrying knuckleheads with a minimum of training and education.

 

[baltimoron]

TSA security is relatively LIGHT compared to the trips I make. El Al guards will search your bags, your pockets, they will RIP OPEN the linings of your suitcase, scan your shoes, do a strip search, full body cavity, and ask you MANY questions just for LOOKING at them funny.

Once you live in Israel, you have NO qualms with security. Whenever you go into a parking garage at the Mall, you don't make a fuss, you pop your trunk, and open your doors. there's no question, you don't like it, you don't shop. it angers me a lot to see people complaining about security- you don't like it, don't get on the plane. Its not only for the safety of the TSA people, its for YOUR OWN GOOD. hmm?

also, I don't think TSA people are nessecairly mean to you because they like the power, I mean it kind of rubbs off after about maybe a month on the job. You are one of the say.... 10,000 people they see every week. They don't really care about the power anymore. They want to do their jobs, and they have to follow it to the letter or ELSE. I mean I am not saying I don't appreciate a cordial TSA guard, but its not like you have a perrogative to evade the laws set down, neither do they. If something is prohibited, it doesn't matter why, its for your own safety. They are not conteding to get into an arguement, in my opinion neither should you (this is a generic you, I am not pointing fingers.)

 

[RonDawg]

Good point Baltimoron: once you have experienced El Al's security procedures (my brother flew with them a couple of years ago) you will NEVER complain about TSA ever again :11:

The worst part is that my brother never even stepped foot into Israel. The LAX-Tel Aviv flight apparently stops in Toronto, where my brother needed to go for a business trip. When United, American, Air Canada were asking $1200 El Al were only asking $400, and that's how he got on. The stuff I joke about in another thread about getting an El Al style interrogation were only a slight exaggeration; my brother walked out of that interview really feeling like he was interrogated by the CIA.

Needless to say, when he got to Toronto he called up his work and demanded his return flight be on another airline.

 

[greg somers]

The US govt is finger printing and photographing transit passengers who don't even leave the terminal and are technically not IN the country, but are moving through to another destination and generally only stop at the terminals because that's where they have to go to get to there following destination and are not even trying to get into the US. As a non US citizen and part of the general travelling community, this is going too far, particularly when over 95% of the containers that go into the US aren't even checked by customs. There's far more important ways for them to spend their time and money to get the right result, than to inconvenience others. Fear rules I guess. I have really been surprised at the way the US govt has trampled over the rights of other sovereign peoples rights. NZ has cooperated in the war on terror and sent troops to Iraq and continue to have troops in Afganistan, but that cuts us no slack, I guess. It's creeped into international financial areas as well. Just last week a NZ Indian citizen had money seized that was being transferred through Western Union to India so that his uncle could have a kidney transplant. $5000. No explanation given until the NZ Ministry of Foreign Affairs intervened. It turned out he had a similiar name to someone, but the Uncle may die as they operation may have been too late as the money was held for a month without explanation. They have been known for years as a champion of human rights. Europe has had to cope with terrorism for years and they haven't gone to these draconian practices. They have very good security and don't go overboard. I hope a balance returns there soon for everyones sake, especially in the "Land of the Free".

 

[Zoe83]

Ive travelled to/through LAX, chicago, raleigh and newark..I expected the worst and so i was happy with what i got. If people need to do their job and search me and my bags from top to toe in the hope that it will stop something like sept11 from happening again, so be it. do what ya gotta do. i havent come across a horrible official. one was borderline, but i was just sweet and understanding even tho i was tired from my 14hr flight, so he got over it..it was at LAX on my way to NC, and i couldnt remember where i was staying..it was with my american bf's family (he had travelled with me) so i said to the official, 'i dont know where i'm staying, but my bf is an american citizen (it helps get you through faster when they know youre with a yank whos already gone in), he's right over there ill ask him' i was waving to him like an idiot and he couldnt see me or something, so i was apologetic and just said wilmington and his family name..the guy lightened up cuz id already made an honest fool outa myself and got all the other questions right, but continued to watch me as i walked in & slapped my unaware bf cuz of what happened! lol If someone damaged my posessions, i wouldnt be surprised, i would be annoyed but what else can you do but go through the normal procedures..as an airline employee i know that if passengers have a huge b*tch about it, things are going to go slower for them. its just how it is. Its been proven that people are most irate when theyre travelling, it sets them off, so that doesnt help, i feel sorry for nice airline workers who cop crap because of it too..but I'm just gona continue to expect the worst and deal with it with a smile on my face...its worked so far! as for the awareness level, i wish it would increase, people do need to be vigilant but its just hard seeing as no-ones quite got the hang of it yet, and especially at airports with all the rushing, things are easily missed by more than one person who is concerned about themself...all we can do is try to be vigilant ourselves and accept all the problems accociated with travelling...

 

[BigJetDriver]

..as an airline employee i know that if passengers have a huge b*tch about it, things are going to go slower for them. its just how it is. Its been proven that people are most irate when theyre travelling, it sets them off, so that doesnt help, i feel sorry for nice airline workers who cop crap because of it too

..but I'm just gona continue to expect the worst and deal with it with a smile on my face...its worked so far! as for the awareness level, i wish it would increase, people do need to be vigilant but its just hard seeing as no-ones quite got the hang of it yet, and especially at airports with all the rushing, things are easily missed by more than one person who is concerned about themself...all we can do is try to be vigilant ourselves and accept all the problems accociated with travelling...

Zoe,

As we say: "When some people fly, they pack their brains in their bags, and then they check the bags!"

I don't know what airline you work for, but it sounds as if they have a great person working for them. Dealing with the public is a REALLY tough job. If you can do it and keep a smile on your face, you deserve a medal!!! :luxhello:

 

[Zoe83]

I actually work in flight operations administration, but i know how everything works and what airport staff have to deal with. i studied travel & tourism and decided that wasnt the job for me as i dont like shift-work, but i understand completely what it is like..ive worked with the public before and i got through it fine, some people were bad but add the people who stress with travel, the new procedures, and it would be nuts...i cant help but feel compassion for the good staff!

 

[Scubaguy62]

as an airline employee i know that if passengers have a huge b*tch about it, things are going to go slower for them. its just how it is. Its been proven that people are most irate when theyre travelling, it sets them off, so that doesnt help, i feel sorry for nice airline workers who cop crap because of it too..but I'm just gona continue to expect the worst and deal with it with a smile on my face...

Zoe, I have first hand experience on the above. I used to be a passenger services supervisor at the gates for American Airlines in the Miami Airport. The gates are not where people board planes, the gates are literally the trenches where the airline personnel hides while the passengers bully their way into the aircraft. Examples of what I've experienced that substantiate my statement above are: a briefcase thrown accross a desk that bruised three ribs on one of my female agents (the guy arrived late from his connecting flight, due to WEATHER); a passenger reached across the desk and attempted to strangle a male gate agent because the agent denied the passenger a free upgrade; a 2 yr old baby be almost trampled by passengers rushing to board an overbooked flight.

I had so many people arrested for threatening, and injuring, both the ground and the flight crew, and had to remove so many unruly passengers, some with force, because as Bigjetdriver said, they checked in their brains.

Don't get me wrong, I miss my D2 travel privileges, and traveling to the caribbean for $18.00 RT (that's right folks....airline employees, well at least AA employees, do not travel for free), but I don't miss the work, or the salary, at all. I got to see and talk to a lot of celebrities, and saw a lot of decent people, but it was those few idiots that gave me the worst "taste in my mouth" about the airline industry.

 

[Nomaster]

Definitely the former.

Tom, let me add to your confusion a little.

I don't think they're well paid at all, and they're definitely undertrained and underskilled. Only that they have a "government badge" under which they seek shelter to harass people unnecessarily and perhaps to the extent of borderline unconstitutional. Typical napoleonic behavior..." I don't amount to much, but I have the power to mess with you."

By the former, I think you were talking about my contention that they TSA employees are undertrained.
I believe that the only lack of training that I can speak to is the ones who lack ability to interact civily with the public **under the stressful conditions under which they are working.

Whoops!! Sorry, I read "define" not "definitely." These reading glasses *DEFINITELY* aren't doing it for me.

The remark about being paid well was because of my missunderstanding about the wages mempilot referred to, when I read his response to me on the other thread, I had no idea that regional pilots were so poorly paid.
So, the TSA folks are paid much less than I believe they should start at, if they are indeed paid only $24k/yr as has been noted in other posts.

Tom