How do Local dive shops stay afloat?

[Dave in PA]

I've got question for the folks who don't seem to get good advice from the employees of the LDS's. How good is the advice you get from the online shops? How much time do they spend with you while you pick out your gear? How do you know the <blank> is going to fit/work when you get it and if it doesn't, who pays return shipping if you can return it? Two short stories:

1) a diver I was diving with two weekends ago had some a new mask from a manufacturer that nobody in the area carries. It didn't fit him properly and he had to contend with a significant leak the entire dive.

2) He also bought a quick disconnect for his computer that he installed himself. It was missing the instructions and an Oring. He didn't know it was missing the Oring since the instructions were missing, too. The missing Oring resulted in a leak on the High Pressure hose. It was fixed lakeside by an LDS tech using the toolbox supplied by an LDS owner.

If he had bought those items at the LDS, the mask would have fit him and the quick disconnect would have been installed and tested for him at no charge. He would have had a slightly more enjoyable day diving to boot.

 

[UndrWatrDan]

Yes, all the "real stores" have unskilled imbeciles working at them!

Hey now, I take offense to being called an unskilled imbecile. I work some in a dive shop and I know how to fill a tank, that makes me a skilled imbecile!

 

[GrierHPharmD]

I shop at my LDS as well as the deep discounters and the internet (including ebay), and the one thing that you can get at an LDS that you can't on the net is a good cup of coffee and a half-hour's worth of conversation with other local divers.

Seriously, my LDS is a great meeting spot for divers that I wouldn't encounter otherwise, folks who don't show up on the net or at dive club meetings. I'd really like to see one of the local shops capitalize on this - set up a coffee bar, keep some dive videos running on the corner tube, and have plenty of impulse-buy items nearby - magazines, books, etc. The one place that they have a real advantage is in putting local divers together for conversation and, possibly, trip planning. By making the LDS a place to congregate, the shop owners create something that the internet can't. Too many of the shops still get into the shopworn LDS vs internet discussion. My take it that both offer advantages, and a diver with limited resources (read that as "a diver that also has a non-diving life") should capitalize on those advantages.

Just a thought,
Grier

 

[The Kraken]

Good marketing strategy, Grier . . .

the K

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The internet versus LDS is not so much an either/or/good bad question as dive shops vary greatly. When traveling I explore other dive shops and sometimes the results are really annoying. For example, in the last shop I visited, which was actually fairly close to home (6 hours away), the owner complained that equipment manufacturers posted their prices in catalogs which then prevented him from selling over retail. That shop as well as one I visited before (also fairly close to home (about 3 hours away) also charged outrageous amounts for service. These types of shops irritate me as they offend customers and leave bad in taste in thier mouths regarding local dive shops.

Both had a "charge whatever the market will bear" philosophy and felt that was the way to run a business. Maybe, but we have had many customers from both shops drive to us rather than shop from them and when they come they usually arrive with their regs as well as several regs owned by freinds that need service. We also have a far larger and far more active group of divers locally due to lower training costs, lower equipment costs, and all you can use, 24/7, self service air club with a $30 annual membership. So what we lose on individual sales we make up for in volume and repeat business from a far larger customer base.

Still, even for us the internet is a challenge as many people see only the low internet price and will not even give us the chance to price match or consider the differences in value, service and personalized service. Some companies limit the price discount a dealer can offer on an item which makes competing with the internet more difficult, but we can still offer discounts on those items if purchased along with items that are not price restricted items as we can choose to include a wet suit at cost with the new reg you want to buy and give you as almost as low a price as you would get buying both items on line. Plus you get the warranty and if you have a problem you get immediate service and an immediate exchange on warranty items if needed.

My advice is to develop a relationship with an LDS that is willing to develop a relationship with you. This then positions you to ask them to try to match prices when possible. This does not however mean come in the shop, try everything on, gets lots of free advice and then decide you are going to buy on line anyway as they are 10-20% cheaper - that will get you a status with just about any shop that you definitely don't want. It is quite frankly unethical to take advantage of all the in store benefits and then deny them the business based on lower internet prices.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I've got question for the folks who don't seem to get good advice from the employees of the LDS's. How good is the advice you get from the online shops? How much time do they spend with you while you pick out your gear? How do you know the <blank> is going to fit/work when you get it and if it doesn't, who pays return shipping if you can return it? Two short stories:

1) a diver I was diving with two weekends ago had some a new mask from a manufacturer that nobody in the area carries. It didn't fit him properly and he had to contend with a significant leak the entire dive.

2) He also bought a quick disconnect for his computer that he installed himself. It was missing the instructions and an Oring. He didn't know it was missing the Oring since the instructions were missing, too. The missing Oring resulted in a leak on the High Pressure hose. It was fixed lakeside by an LDS tech using the toolbox supplied by an LDS owner.

If he had bought those items at the LDS, the mask would have fit him and the quick disconnect would have been installed and tested for him at no charge. He would have had a slightly more enjoyable day diving to boot.

A couple of points here. When you shop online you usually aren't going to get any advice although there are exceptions to that. The thing is that you usually aren't charged for advice either. At a dive shop, on the other hand, you seem to be charged for it whether you want it, get it or need it or not.

When I owned a dive shop and I had to return a defective product the manufacturer usually foot the bill for the shipping. Some one does have to put it in a box though. LOL

If you depend on the LDS for last minute repairs at the dive site you should of course be willing to pay for it somehow. I carry my own tools and spares and need no such help and therefore don't want to pay for it.

 

[mossym]

A couple of points here. When you shop online you usually aren't going to get any advice although there are exceptions to that. The thing is that you usually aren't charged for advice either. At a dive shop, on the other hand, you seem to be charged for it whether you want it, get it or need it or not.

When I owned a dive shop and I had to return a defective product the manufacturer usually foot the bill for the shipping. Some one does have to put it in a box though. LOL

If you depend on the LDS for last minute repairs at the dive site you should of course be willing to pay for it somehow. I carry my own tools and spares and need no such help and therefore don't want to pay for it.

agreed, what's that latin term for buyer beware? the same points that can be used to defend the lds can also be used against it...extra help vs increased cost..some items are worth the increased cost for the extra help..some aren't...if you can't tell which is which...well, then err on the side of safety

 

[Chris Hipp]

ScubaToys is technically my LDS, about 6 or 7 minutes from my work, so am I supporting my LDS when I buy in store but not when I buy online?

Like someone mentioned before, most of these internet sites are actual dive shops. It is just like the difference between selling something at a garage sale or on ebay. sell it at a garage sale and only the people who happen to come by will see it and potentialy buy it, put it on ebay and everyone that wants one will be looking for it and find yours.

 

[SteveDiver]

I went into my Local Dive Shop (LDS) the other day and the prices were so much more than on the internet. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the internet doesn't have overhead, a store lots of employees etc.. Does anyone here buy their gear from LDS? If so what's the advantage?

I purchased all of my equipment via the Internet and also have a warranty on the items purchased. I use my LDS for air fills, equip maintenance, trips, and little odds and ends....It is a matter of preference of where you to choose to shop....

 

[davsholm423]

I'm in the market for my first setup of gear and was at first planning on buying it on the internet. Why you ask? Like most people, money is tight and that $300+ I save on my setup would allow me to either get more quality gear, or pay for around 60 air fills. Also there are no dive shops within an hour of where I live.

So I went into my not too local diveshop (two hours away) to get more information and see what they could do for pricing. By the end of this I had spent almost 2 hours in the shop. We went through all of the options I could get and decided what would work best for me. I ended up deciding to go with the bp/w instead of the Zeagle Escape. It seems pretty obvious to me that the markup on a jacket/backinflate bcd would be a lot more than a bp/w. But this dive shop didn't even carry the jacket bcds and the Zeagle Escape prices were really close to internet. I also asked if I should get a nice gear bag for my local diving, because I saw they had a few nice $200 bags, and instead he told me to go buy a $5 rubbermaid.

Throughout my visit it seemed obvious that the salesman didn't want me to get what made HIM the most money. He wanted what would work best for ME. So after this great visit I decided to buy from them and I feel very comfortable and happy with my decision.