I have decided there is no longer a need for me to post on ScubaBoard

[robertarak]

Why it took you so long?

HA! Gee thanks, Alberto.

 

[mselenaous]

Thanks Robert for the tongue in cheek chuckle of the day.
Following the theme of this thread, I too can add nothing to this thread that hasn't already been said.
Peter, I can sympathize with swell heads some of our popular posters get from their fan clubs.
Lynne, give Natalie a high-five for me.

 

[Melicertes]

I'll dissent. TSandM is eloquent and thoughtful but I rarely agree with her GUE-oriented sentiment. The more voices the better, IMO.

While I do appreciate GUE's philosophy and approach to diving (from what I have read), and while I also agree with a lot of the fundamentals behind GUE's way of doing things, I am not GUE trained or certified and at best not very well informed about it. I do not even dive GUE Style (see my horse dance impersonation for added effect) for the most part.

That said, I don't think I have ever read anything that TSandM posted that I would consider overt GUE evangelism with a hidden agenda behind it. I always enjoy her posts because they are well worded, concise, and clear. They almost always contain good advice and that, IMHO are respectful of other disciplines and approaches.

I echo the need for encouraging diversity in all discussions, from all perspectives because only then can we read the posts, and eat the fish and leave the bones like my mother used to say.

I will therefore also tip my hat to TSandM for always posting stuff I find interesting, supportive and IMHO a good read for divers of all levels and backgrounds.

 

[TSandM]

Thank you, Melicertes!

I will admit to evangelism.

I think that most divers would enjoy diving more and have more fun if a) they had better skills, and b) they weren't stressed about their buddies. The system within which I dive solves both problems. They can be solved other ways, but this is one I can recommend that I know works for a variety of settings, geographical locations, and diving environments.

But mostly, I just want folks to be better divers and have more fun.

 

[Melicertes]

Thank you, Melicertes!

I will admit to evangelism.

I think that most divers would enjoy diving more and have more fun if a) they had better skills, and b) they weren't stressed about their buddies. The system within which I dive solves both problems. They can be solved other ways, but this is one I can recommend that I know works for a variety of settings, geographical locations, and diving environments.

But mostly, I just want folks to be better divers and have more fun.

I am all for better skills make no mistake. I primarily have a PADI background but like I said to my NAUI drysuit instructor, I couldn't give a sea rat's backside about which agency endorsed my c-card as long as the training is solid and the instructor has a vested interest to teach good skill development and sound technique (which is often a counter-productive approach economically many dive shops claim if their policies and behavior is anything to go by these days).

We are all evangelists in what we believe the best ways of approach are, otherwise we wouldn't do things the way we do them or teach others the way we teach them, right? We believe in our own belief systems after all. My wife (who has a CMAS background) and I are usually very skeptical of other divers and will not easily buddy up with others unless we've either taught them ourselves or if they have been trained by someone we trust as an instructor. I know I sound elitist but to be perfectly honest I think a lot of people that are certified today are accidents begging for an opportunity to happen and I would rather not have to babysit my buddy on a dive unless I get paid to do that. Sadly my skepticism also includes some instructors and DM's we have dived with in the past as well and that is far more alarming!! That is why we are extremely careful to choose who we buddy up with if there is any choice about the matter.

I do not think I have ever read one of your posts stating your way is the best and only way or as a PADI instructor had something that I could outright fundamentally disagree with. That's why I do not think the post I replied to was entirely fair in questioning your apparently disagreeable "GUE-sentiment". I think people just get too hung up on all the acronyms - PADI, GUE, DIR, CMAS, NAUI, IANTD, etc. etc ad nauseum. The physics stay the same no matter the certifying agency; so IMHO if the instructor has an opinion that is rooted in sound science, practical experience and it is not something her certifying agency expressly forbids to teach, then I will horse dance the GUE Style, or NAUI style, or WHATEVER Style for me, myself and I's diving style and think myself a better diver, or at least a better informed diver for it. Neither my wife nor I am in teaching status at the moment but when we do teach (I know, I know but I don't really drink beer) , I follow PADI standards (because that's how I am certified to certify students); however you can bet your spring straps I make sure my students know there's way more to it than just the introductions to diving that PADI OW and AOW certs cover these days and that they know all other reputable agencies all have their merits given a solid and trustworthy instructor.

Some things can be taught, others have to be learned through experience and good mentoring and I think your posts usually have value to support both.

Not to interrupt the group hug, but the OP would imply that there was ever a need for them to post on SB...

As someone on TDS said recently, they don't post here because "everyone is an expert on everything"

Unless I am mistaken this is a chat forum. The point is to post your opinions and take part in discussions if you have something to contribute, question, disagree with, or otherwise just don't understand (and hopefully learn something through that whole process). Make no mistake, we all have our opinions about everything we think about in life, whether we'd admit them or not. We all think our opinions are correct, right, accurate... Not everyone will always agree on those opinions but that is exactly what makes a respectful, open and amicable discussion so valuable because you get to read opinions you would not otherwise have considered, known about, or imagined so you can re-evaluate your own position, take on, understanding of, or belief in a particular topic and adjust accordingly, or not.

It's a sad state of affairs when people have become so intellectually timid that they can no longer respectfully argue the merits of their opinions when faced with disagreement or criticism. It's sad when people cannot bear being disagreed with. Thinking for yourself and re-evaluating your beliefs in the light of new information that might hold some value is difficult to do. It is hard work and the egos often get in the way too but we're a poorer society as a whole when apathy reigns. It's almost as if people fear that their identities are somehow at risk these days just because someone disagreed with them on some Internet forum; how absurd.

Tell them to not take the trolls so seriously (don't feed them either), accept not everyone will always be in agreement (what a good thing that is too), and to step up and contribute their opinions here or anywhere they choose for that matter. Everyone has a right to their opinions and to disagree with others in a respectful way. Those that don't do so respectfully are usually handled very well by the very capable team of moderators here from my experience. Just opting out because "the other kids didn't like me" is just childish and immature (and sadly somewhat of an apropos description of today's society, which is why we have to fight this apathy and root it out wherever we find it).

 

[boulderjohn]

We are all evangelists in what we believe the best ways of approach are, otherwise we wouldn't do things the way we do them or teach others the way we teach them, right? ...

I do not think I have ever read one of your posts stating your way is the best and only way or as a PADI instructor had something that I could outright fundamentally disagree with. That's why I do not think the post I replied to was entirely fair in questioning your apparently disagreeable "GUE-sentiment". I think people just get too hung up on all the acronyms - PADI, GUE, DIR, CMAS, NAUI, IANTD, etc. etc ad nauseum. The physics stay the same no matter the certifying agency; so IMHO if the instructor has an opinion that is rooted in sound science, practical experience and it is not something her certifying agency expressly forbids to teach, then I will horse dance the GUE Style, or NAUI style, or WHATEVER Style for me, myself and I's diving style and think myself a better diver, or at least a better informed diver for it. Neither my wife nor I am in teaching status at the moment but when we do teach (I know, I know but I don't really drink beer) , I follow PADI standards (because that's how I am certified to certify students); however you can bet your spring straps I make sure my students know there's way more to it than just the introductions to diving that PADI OW and AOW certs cover these days and that they know all other reputable agencies all have their merits given a solid and trustworthy instructor.

Lynne is a self-admitted GUE evangelist, but she is also a practicing PADI DM who assists her PADI instructor husband in teaching his classes.

It is interesting that there are others who see this as a contradiction. Remember that in the home of GUE--the Extreme Exposure dive shop in Florida--they teach through two agencies--GUE and PADI. There is no reason one cannot be an advocate of both.

 

[robertarak]

I would comment on this, being both a GUE diver and a PADI instructor (also in the GUE Instructor Training Program), but I will just wait for Lynne to express my opinions for me. LOL!

I kill me.

 

[Melicertes]

It is interesting that there are others who see this as a contradiction. Remember that in the home of GUE--the Extreme Exposure dive shop in Florida--they teach through two agencies--GUE and PADI. There is no reason one cannot be an advocate of both.

I entirely agree; it is absurd and illogical how some people seem to view these things IMHO. My sig line quotes Voltaire's sentiment about thinking for ourselves and allowing others to do the same, but sometimes I feel that these days some people seem to have become too lazy to think for themselves and just want to be given the answers so they can get the c-card and "get on with it"!

I was never taught to dive a backplate and wing setup and I only started diving it after reading so much about them here on SB many years after my IDC. I suspect I might now have to sit down with more than just one of my fellow instructor candidates (and a few names do come to mind) whom I attended my IDC with (if we got together for coffee from our various places around the globe) about the merits of a minimalist setup that looks so "old-fashioned" and "Sea Hunt-ish". After all, modern, colorful, jacket style BC's have so many cool features and "safety designs" (read gimmicks) and so much modern research has gone into their designs why would you not want to mirror that "good example" that they show on the instruction videos and recommend the same to your students? The same applies to instruction IMHO; many people will discount something that absolutely has merit simply because it does not have the same label or "highly visible snorkel pouch for emergencies" they expect to see on it.

---------- Post added September 3rd, 2013 at 09:07 AM ----------

I would comment on this, being both a GUE diver and a PADI instructor (also in the GUE Instructor Training Program), but I will just wait for Lynne to express my opinions for me. LOL!

I kill me.

You did read my "rant" about apathy right?