Question Is my AOW class “normal”?

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In that case, one can also argue that all you need to know in diving is: Breath in/breath out, never hold your breath and never come up fast and if you are unsure, go to YouTube.
You could argue that. But I could also argue that there is much more to being a good diver, such as buoyancy, trim, finning, on & on. I could argue that there isn't a lot more to protecting the uw environment than just don't touch anything. You could argue that there are some unusual circumstances where you'd need a bit more knowledge to prevent unknowingly harming something. I could say that's a rarity. It's only opinion as to who wins these arguments.
 
I would agree, in my certification classes I didn’t learn anything I couldn’t have learned on YouTube. My growth came from diving with an experienced buddy and diving a lot the first few years. Now it is like riding a bike, take time off and buoyancy skills stay solid and air consumption stays good.
Guess I agree. Certainly pretty much all the skills are on the internet the last 10-15 years. Heck, even before Youtube you probably could get all the info. from paper manuals. I think we'd agree it would not be the best way to learn the skills, as opposed to being in a pool with an instructor.
Absolutely agree you learn more about being a (advanced.....) diver by diving, especially lots of diving like you did with an experienced GOOD diver buddy.
 
It is true that it is possible to learn anything on your own. A struggling member of an unknown rock group bought a flute and a short pamphlet on how to play it and turned it into a 50+ year career with his band, Jethro Tull. In fact, some instructors are so bad that you would be better off without them. I am pretty sure I would have learned a heck of a lot more calculus the second semester of my freshman year if I had just read the book myself rather than become thoroughly confused by the worst math teacher in history.

On the other hand, a number of people in history have been credited with warning us that the race is not always to the swift nor the contest to the strong, but that's the way to bet. In the vast majority of cases, people will learn better and faster with quality instruction than on their own.
 
It is true that it is possible to learn anything on your own. A struggling member of an unknown rock group bought a flute and a short pamphlet on how to play it and turned it into a 50+ year career with his band, Jethro Tull. In fact, some instructors are so bad that you would be better off without them. I am pretty sure I would have learned a heck of a lot more calculus the second semester of my freshman year if I had just read the book myself rather than become thoroughly confused by the worst math teacher in history.

On the other hand, a number of people in history have been credited with warning us that the race is not always to the swift nor the contest to the strong, but that's the way to bet. In the vast majority of cases, people will learn better and faster with quality instruction than on their own.
Absolutely. I knew a guy who played flute in university. The award winning jazz band there needed a bari sax, so he read a book and became a master at that. He was exceptional though. Most at that (or any) level need to study with a private teacher.
 
You could argue that. But I could also argue that there is much more to being a good diver, such as buoyancy, trim, finning, on & on. I could argue that there isn't a lot more to protecting the uw environment than just don't touch anything. You could argue that there are some unusual circumstances where you'd need a bit more knowledge to prevent unknowingly harming something. I could say that's a rarity. It's only opinion as to who wins these arguments.

No, what you are saying isn't accurate at all, your basing your judgement on your own experience of diving in the lakes and ponds with very little environmental significance on the dive.

You could argue that there are some unusual circumstances where you'd need a bit more knowledge to prevent unknowingly harming something. I could say that's a rarity.
Many of the dive skills we teach and keep practicing are never used in real life and the reason they aren't used is because not only we have practiced them but also because we learned how to avoid the situations that lead to scenarios where emergency skills are needed. All serious potential issues in diving are rare because of prevention not because of luck in the greater majority of time.

Any diver who claims to be an "advanced" diver who only knows buoyancy control, trim and stops there and isn't aware of the environment and doesn't know about the marine life and environment he is visiting, as a guest, is an incomplete "advanced" diver with lacking skills and knowledge.

Heck, at minimum, if marine life and the environment knowledge were important and significant part of divers' safety, your agency wouldn't have include marine life and environment orientation in the dive briefing a dive leader has to include when taking students or diver out diving in any location. If they didn't include this information in their briefing, they would be in violation of their respective agency's standards.

Perhaps we are arguing because we come from different school's of thought here, I come with a NAUI background that places heavy emphasis on education and being thorough in its diver training programs and view diving and diver training more than just few dive skills to become a diver or, especially, an advanced diver. NAUI has extensive marine environment, biology and ecology, details in its entry level course and must be taught. It is all part of a complete package, we are only guests in the water environment and it is only fitting that we learn about our hosts.
 
No, what you are saying isn't accurate at all, your basing your judgement on your own experience of diving in the lakes and ponds with very little environmental significance on the dive.


Many of the dive skills we teach and keep practicing are never used in real life and they aren't used is because we have practiced them but also because we learned how to avoid the situations that lead to scenarios where emergency skills are needed. All serious potential issues in diving are rare because of prevention not because of luck in the greater majority of time.

Any diver who claims to be an "advanced" diver who only knows buoyancy control, trim and stops there and isn't aware of the environment and doesn't know about the marine life and environment he is visiting, as a guest, is an incomplete "advanced" diver with lacking skills and knowledge.

Heck, at minimum, if marine life and the environment knowledge were important and significant part of divers' safety, your agency wouldn't have include marine life and environment orientation in the dive briefing a dive leader has to include when taking students or diver out diving in any location. If they didn't include this information in their briefing, they would be in violation of their respective agency's standards.

Perhaps we are arguing because we come from different school's of thought here, I come with a NAUI background that places heavy emphasis on education and being thorough in its diver training programs and view diving and diver training more than just few dive skills to become a diver or, especially, an advanced diver. NAUI has extensive marine environment, biology and ecology, details in its entry level course and must be taught. It is all part of a complete package, we are only guests in the water environment and it is only fitting that we learn about our hosts.
Wow.
First, what makes you think most of my diving has been in lakes and ponds??! Like maybe 8 of my 919 dives. The rest in the ocean. Nova Scotia to Florida & Texas and much in between, and a trip to Panama.
And, are you saying not to worry about disturbing the environment in lakes and ponds? Unimportant, eh?

Great buoyancy control, trim, finning, rescue skills, safe conservative diving, mastery of the 24 (?) "pool skills", common sense, a decent number of dives, a few other things, and diving without touching anything= advanced diver IMO.
I know that can't hope to compete with the vastly superior NAUI OW course (not to mention the unparalleled NAUI MSD course). Sorry, I shouldn't promote the PADI/NAUI thing.

But seriously, when you say NAUI has "extensive marine environment, biology and ecology, details in it's entry level course" what are those details? Are they details about every possible marine animal/plant (in the water column or on the bottom, on the beach, etc.) that you will run into no matter where you are in the world? I'm not being facetious, am truly curious. I know that if I were walking I the Amazon jungle I would surely at times be stepping on something and unknowingly harming it. I could also be a guest in that environment as well. To be honest, I think that is an overused expression (again, says the shell collector)....In fact, I would imagine that some very educated, advanced divers have stepped on a hermit crab or something while entering the water.
 
I haven’t read all 13 pages (!) but just to let you know my experience. Soon after my OW (abroad) I was so hooked to diving that I wanted to do AOW to learn/dive as much as possible.

Back then I didn’t know much about the dive stores available in my area so I stopped by the nearest one to ask info. There was a guy (not the owner but an instructor) who told me something like this: Look, you need to learn/do 5 new things for AOW but it is very easy: We use a boat (1. boat dive), go somewhere deep for the actual dive (2. deep dive), do some buoyancy exercises (3. peak performance) and search for something (4. S&R) and all these near sunset so by the end, it will be dark (5. night dive). All in one kind of thing. Of course, he said, as a local (the said dive store caters almost exclusively tourists) I would get a hefty discount. He looked quite serious about it and I am pretty sure that he didn't think of all these on the spot just for me. It looked like a quite common shortcut for some customers (people in hurry or with low budget maybe?).

If I was looking for the card and not to get as much experience and knowledge as possible I would probably have gone with them.

Thanks God, by that time I have already spend some time reading through Scuba Board and thanks to it I've learnt that I should get as much knowledge and experience as possible during AOW hence I did ask around and fount a much better dive store.​
 
ut seriously, when you say NAUI has "extensive marine environment, biology and ecology, details in it's entry level course" what are those details? Are they details about every possible marine animal/plant (in the water column or on the bottom, on the beach, etc.) that you will run into no matter where you are in the world? I'm not being facetious, am truly curious. I know that if I were walking I the Amazon jungle I would surely at times be stepping on something and unknowingly harming it. I could also be a guest in that environment as well. To be honest, I think that is an overused expression (again, says the shell collector)....In fact, I would imagine that some very educated, advanced divers have stepped on a hermit crab or something while entering the water.

It is extensive, you'll have to take the course and read the book. Marine environment and marine life is discussed in two sections, environmental considerations and in rescue and first aid. There is plenty to talk about. This is in the entry level/beginner course NAUI offers, OWSD course.

The point here, advanced diver isn't advanced without corresponding knowledge about marine life and environment.
 
It is extensive, you'll have to take the course and read the book. Marine environment and marine life is discussed in two sections, environmental considerations and in rescue and first aid. There is plenty to talk about. This is in the entry level/beginner course NAUI offers, AOWSD course.

The point here, advanced diver isn't advanced without corresponding knowledge about marine life and environment.
Ok thanks. No NAUI shops here but maybe when I get back to post-Covid travel.
 
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