Question Is my AOW class “normal”?

[drk5036]

NAUI has an "Advanced Scuba Diver" cert that is 6 sampler dives (must include nav, night, deep plus 3 electives). they also have the "Master Scuba Diver" cert that is at least 8 dives, but no apparent requirement for any specialties or number of logged dives. This is all from their web page; perhaps a NAUI instructor can be more informative.

I should have written more clearly. What I meant was I think the very good “advanced diver” course that @Centrals was referring to is now called the master scuba diver course.

It has the same course load as the divemaster course re: diving theory. Just doesn’t discuss the business aspect.

 

[BoltSnap]

I think the NAUI advanced diver course is now the master scuba diver course?

No, the "Advanced Diver" course was the "third" level up course and the MSD was the 4th level up. The "Advanced Diver" course/certification in its previous format doesn't exist anymore. There is now a "Advanced SCUBA Diver" course that is the second level course from the "Openwater Scuba Diver" course and the MSD is the third, highest, level course.

 

[BlueTrin]

+++

One of the most valuable courses I ever took was Dive with the Naturalist, Fish ID and Behavior, with Jerry Ligon in Bonaire in 2008. My wife and I spent the morning in the classroom with Jerry and then did over an hour on Bari Reef. This non-certification course really changed the nature of my diving and increased the enjoyment manyfold. I've been working on my fish ID and understanding of their behavior ever since. I'm sorry that others can no longer have this experience on Bonaire

I would gladly pay for a good fish ID class.

However I am not sure about how to find which fish ID class is worth paying and which one is not.

I’ll ask around to see if I can find one by word of mouth.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would gladly pay for a good fish ID class.

However I am not sure about how to find which fish ID class is worth paying and which one is not.

I’ll ask around to see if I can find one by word of mouth.

The quality of the class has a lot to do with where you take it. I have had AOW students tell me they want to take Fish ID even though we are doing the class in a place like New Mexico. Forget it. My fine class took place in Cozumel, and I learned about the sea life common throughout the Caribbean. I was less helpful for me when I dived the south Pacific.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I know of one "fish ID" or whatever you want to call it course that is taught by an instructor in Florida. He's a PhD professor in marine biology at a university there. That would one I'd take.
Similar to underwater photography. I took an abbreviated course that didn't give out a card and was not through any agency. The instructor is not a scuba instructor. He is a professional photographer that has shot for Nat Geo, Smithsonian, Discovery, and a few other entities at that level.
I remember when I was a PADI DM and they came out with the Digital Photography specialty that DM's could teach after attending a workshop on it. Looked into and found out that it was one day and half of it was going to be on how to sell the specialty.
This is why, even though I offer a skills for UW photography workshop that focuses on buoyancy, trim, environmental awareness, and etiquette for photography, it is not a UW photo class. For that I refer people to actual underwater photographers who make some or all of their living from it.
The workshop came after seeing some in the photo class I took crashing into the bottom, fighting to keep their camera level because of how it was weighted, and kicking things with their fins. The actual photo instructors I refer to said that having people come to the class, with the skills I was going to offer, would cut the amount of time they needed to spend on that (which they shouldn't be doing anyway). And make it more fun and educational for the student if they had the diver skills and could just focus on the camera in the class.

 

[tursiops]

I know of one "fish ID" or whatever you want to call it course that is taught by an instructor in Florida. He's a PhD professor in marine biology at a university there. That would one I'd take.
Similar to underwater photography. I took an abbreviated course that didn't give out a card and was not through any agency. The instructor is not a scuba instructor. He is a professional photographer that has shot for Nat Geo, Smithsonian, Discovery, and a few other entities at that level.
I remember when I was a PADI DM and they came out with the Digital Photography specialty that DM's could teach after attending a workshop on it. Looked into and found out that it was one day and half of it was going to be on how to sell the specialty.
This is why, even though I offer a skills for UW photography workshop that focuses on buoyancy, trim, environmental awareness, and etiquette for photography, it is not a UW photo class. For that I refer people to actual underwater photographers who make some or all of their living from it.
The workshop came after seeing some in the photo class I took crashing into the bottom, fighting to keep their camera level because of how it was weighted, and kicking things with their fins. The actual photo instructors I refer to said that having people come to the class, with the skills I was going to offer, would cut the amount of time they needed to spend on that (which they shouldn't be doing anyway). And make it more fun and educational for the student if they had the diver skills and could just focus on the camera in the class.

When I'm teaching UW Photography, we start with a dive where the student has no camera, but holds a 2-pound weight in their hands, and pretends it is their camera. They "look through it" and hold it still and compose and don't hold their breathe and don't kick the bottom or touch the reef. When they can do that well, then they can take a camera.

 

[TMHeimer]

I know of one "fish ID" or whatever you want to call it course that is taught by an instructor in Florida. He's a PhD professor in marine biology at a university there. That would one I'd take.
Similar to underwater photography. I took an abbreviated course that didn't give out a card and was not through any agency. The instructor is not a scuba instructor. He is a professional photographer that has shot for Nat Geo, Smithsonian, Discovery, and a few other entities at that level.
I remember when I was a PADI DM and they came out with the Digital Photography specialty that DM's could teach after attending a workshop on it. Looked into and found out that it was one day and half of it was going to be on how to sell the specialty.
This is why, even though I offer a skills for UW photography workshop that focuses on buoyancy, trim, environmental awareness, and etiquette for photography, it is not a UW photo class. For that I refer people to actual underwater photographers who make some or all of their living from it.
The workshop came after seeing some in the photo class I took crashing into the bottom, fighting to keep their camera level because of how it was weighted, and kicking things with their fins. The actual photo instructors I refer to said that having people come to the class, with the skills I was going to offer, would cut the amount of time they needed to spend on that (which they shouldn't be doing anyway). And make it more fun and educational for the student if they had the diver skills and could just focus on the camera in the class.

I'm beating a dead horse a bit here, but I think what you said is in line with my way of thinking. Three of the skills you offer for UW photography-- buoyancy, trim, environmental awareness-- are skills that could be included in courses that I would consider legitimate components of an AOW certification. Of course, these things should be taught in an OW course at least to some degree. That's another discussion. But as you say, the camera instruction should be done by a photographer. This shows me that being able to work a camera well underwater and take great pictures has nothing to do with being an advanced diver. Same thing with videographer, fish ID. Something like DPV course I would consider on the fence,
because that could be valuable in locating a missing diver.
Sorry for backtracking folks.

 

[pauldw]

A number of people have said that "Advanced Open Water" doesn't make one an "advanced" diver (which is certainly true), and doesn't even suggest that one is an "advanced" diver, it just means one is "advancing" through a series of courses. This strikes me as disingenuous. "Advanced" and "advancing" mean different things. "Advanced Open Water" suggests that one becomes "advanced," and that may make people feel good about themselves, but it's kind of like "Master Scuba Diver"; it doesn't mean what it says.

And, for the PADI sequence, I think the operator's license is: OW, AOW unfortunately, nitrox, and rescue, with several dives in between each course. I'm guessing that this sequence, plus some testosterone supplements, somewhat approximates what real divers learned in the glory days of LA dive training.

 

[tursiops]

This shows me that being able to work a camera well underwater and take great pictures has nothing to do with being an advanced diver.

Nonsense, especially if you are asking the diver to respect the reef and its life. It is hard enough to get a new diver to control their buoyance and not kick up sand/silt, without task-loading them with a camera.

Our ex-PADI Regional Director once said, "OW is learning to not hold your breath, don't stay down too long, and have fun. AOW is about some cool things to do while you are not holding your breath. Rescue is what to do if someone holds their breath." Task-loading a new diver is a BAD idea.

 

[TMHeimer]

Nonsense, especially if you are asking the diver to respect the reef and its life. It is hard enough to get a new diver to control their buoyance and not kick up sand/silt, without task-loading them with a camera.

Our ex-PADI Regional Director once said, "OW is learning to not hold your breath, don't stay down too long, and have fun. AOW is about some cool things to do while you are not holding your breath. Rescue is what to do if someone holds their breath." Task-loading a new diver is a BAD idea.

I'm just saying that you should be able to respect the reef, control buoyancy, etc. whether you are using a camera or not. For me, having those skills in great shape can equate to the word advanced. If you are "advanced", adding camera work uw shouldn't improve those dive skills--you already have them in great shape.

I didn't say I think a new diver should be task loaded with operating a camera.
I know that AOW is about those things you and others (John) have said-- cool new things, etc.
I'm just saying personally I don't think that is what it should be about. Going around in circles. That's just my opinion.

My ideas on what AOW should include--
-Maybe 200 logged dives? I know some can be advanced after 20 dives, others not after 1,000, but I just threw out 200 to show some experience.
-Those courses that have at least something to do with diving skills/safety such as
Deep, Wreck, S & R, UW Nav for sure, maybe Night because that would also help with low viz day dives.
Nitrox--I dunno. Safety if you set computer/tables to Air, but doesn't really improve diving.
- Rescue Certification. If you don't have rescue skills you're not "advanced".
If there were a distinctive specialty "Shell Collector Diver" course I'd be the first to take it--wouldn't make me more "advanced".

Just my ideas on what AOW should be, not at all saying that courses that are cool and interesting but don't fit my parameters are a waste or unimportant. One project for my Masters was to trace the history of the clarinet from it's 1690 invention to present day. Extremely interesting information for me. Didn't do a thing to improve my clarinet playing. Didn't make me more advanced.