Kiss sidewinder scrubbers.

[Dumper]

Hello all , first post here.

I was wondering what the WOB characteristics are , in relation to the kiss dual scrubber set up, which are in series, but gas flow is in 2 separate pulses.

Could someone explain the coefficient of drag and dwell time characteristics of this system , particularly as compared to the same volume of sorb in a single scrubber single bellows system

Thank you.

 

[rjack321]

Hello all , first post here.

I was wondering what the WOB characteristics are , in relation to the kiss dual scrubber set up, which are in series, but gas flow is in 2 separate pulses.

Could someone explain the coefficient of drag and dwell time characteristics of this system , particularly as compared to the same volume of sorb in a single scrubber single bellows system

Thank you.

Totally untested... I mean they aren't even honest about the mass of sorb in there (its about 5lbs not 6lbs). And you'll find the exhaust scrubber is quickly saturated with more unknowns about the efficiency of soaking wet sorb, and the WOB of wet sorb.

It's not like there isn't precedence with the dual scrubbers in the Revo though. Splitting the scrubbers is actually least important sources of uncertainty around performance on the sidewinder and spirt.

 

[Dumper]

Thanks mate ,

Yeah it looks like the primary aim of the side winder unit is low profile.
That is not my thing.

It is what it is , lightweight rebreather for airline travel , with compromises to achieve this result.

I like that KISS trys to push the boundaries.

Cheers mate.

 

[breals]

Totally untested... I mean they aren't even honest about the mass of sorb in there (its about 5lbs not 6lbs). And you'll find the exhaust scrubber is quickly saturated with more unknowns about the efficiency of soaking wet sorb, and the WOB of wet sorb.

It's not like there isn't precedence with the dual scrubbers in the Revo though. Splitting the scrubbers is actually least important sources of uncertainty around performance on the sidewinder and spirt.

Performance on the rEVo split scrubber was consistent WOB in my 10 years of experience owning one. It was better than the 1 year I owned a KISS Classic. The single Classic scrubber stack was consistently wet. I find better performance on the KISS Spirit/Sidewinder, more like the rEvo, the exhale scrubber is damp but the inhale is dry.

 

[Dumper]

Breals,

If it works f o r you that is what counts.

Regards Dumper

 

[Wibble]

Am curious as to the SideWinder work of breathing.

The Revo design has two scrubbers in series but they've a lot more surface area than the SideWinder, i.e. short and fat. The Revo also has scrubber monitoring heat sensors to detect the reaction front.

The SideWinder is far more compact with narrow and long dimensions for the scrubbers. One would think that this would affect the WOB when compared with the Revo design.

Would be nice to hear from SideWinder users.

 

[davehicks]

I dive the Kiss Spirit, which i essentially the same as the sidewinder. The WOB is great and not something that i ever need to think about. It is also a perfect unit for travel, lightweight and a breeze to maintain. After 3-4 hours on the scrubber, the exhale side scrubber will get clumpy, but not damp. The other scrubber is usually bone dry and clump free The lungs might have a couple tablespoons on water in them.

 

[Wibble]

I dive the Kiss Spirit, which i essentially the same as the sidewinder. The WOB is great and not something that i ever need to think about. It is also a perfect unit for travel, lightweight and a breeze to maintain. After 3-4 hours on the scrubber, the exhale side scrubber will get clumpy, but not damp. The other scrubber is usually bone dry and clump free The lungs might have a couple tablespoons on water in them.

If only there was a monitoring system ;-)

The Revo unmonitored 'rules' are 3h max where you would replace the top (exhale) scrubber and 3h45 max for the whole unit. With monitoring you can tell if the reaction front's gone into the second scrubber and thus have far more extended dive times before changing scrubbers.

"In theory", you could use the monitoring system to see how effective "random" scrubbers were where you don't know if they've been used or not. Load them in the unit and pre-breathe for it to assess where the front is and then calculate the remaining time. (Yes, issues with measuring the second scrubber if the first is working fine; switching the two over would solve that)

 

[rjack321]

Am curious as to the SideWinder work of breathing.

The Revo design has two scrubbers in series but they've a lot more surface area than the SideWinder, i.e. short and fat. The Revo also has scrubber monitoring heat sensors to detect the reaction front.

The SideWinder is far more compact with narrow and long dimensions for the scrubbers. One would think that this would affect the WOB when compared with the Revo design.

Would be nice to hear from SideWinder users.

The scrubber "design" has basically nothing to do with the WOB. They are only about 15cm long (havent measured exactly), far less than other axials like on the kiss classic or the Meg.

The position of the CL relative to your lungs and mouth plus any compression of the CL due to position, BC, or just being in a relatively tiny cave far and away dominates whether it breathes at all or everything wants to dump out your nose.

Like every sidemount CCR it's not tested or barely tested so all you get are anecdotes.

 

[bobmaggi]

I owned a Kiss classic for 9 years, WOB was horrible unless you had the unit harness setup correctly for your body. Once it was setup then it breathed adequately so long as you stayed in the right trim which was swimming along at about a 30º angle. For that reason the Classic was a terrible unit to just strap on for a rebreather trial dive. However it was a pretty bullet proof unit and easy to maintain. That said, the only reason I got rid of mine was I wanted to try something new and get something lighter for travel. I have been tech diving a Kiss Spirit for 8 years now. The WOB is much better than the Classic, there are fewer ‘bad’ trim positions, its easy to setup and dive, much better diving even if the harness isn’t exactly right. Most dives the exhale canister is slightly damp and the counterlungs will have have a small amount of water in them while the inhale canister is typically bone dry. I have dove it when I unknowingly had a tear in the mouthpiece which was allowing quite a bit of water into the unit. The WOB didn’t change, the first indication I had was hearing gurgling in the exhale hose. After the dive the exhale canister was completely saturated with water (fresh water) and the inhale canister was slightly damp. There were 2-3 cups of water in the counterlungs when I dumped them out. I am very happy with the WOB on the unit and plan on diving it for a while longer!