latest SM set up with pics - for anyone getting started it may help....or not

[Sidemount_Stu]

i am using the square attachment points at the rear of the waist and i have the clips as close to the bottle as they can go (no leash at all). no other way to get them further back as you suggested unless i used shorter clips. but then they would be too tough to handle with the heavy gloves etc.

It can be achieved.... this video is one of my first setup tests... i'm diving an Xdeep Stealth, using Steel 12's in coldwater, attachment point is the square D rings that come with it, no butt plate...... it took some fiddling, and even just an inch on the jubilee clips up or down makes a big difference, as does the choice of bolt snap going up through the band, or down through the band etc.... have a look at this, if you have any questions, just ask..... hope it helps.....[video=vimeo;103240412]http://vimeo.com/103240412[/video]

 

[loquat149]

You guys are funny. The bungees on my Stealth on rigged the same way as on my Armadillo:



I've never had a bungee come off in the water and they hold cave-filled Faber 85's and 95's just fine. Of course you don't need specialized hardware to serve as bungee-keepers, but the Highseas Millworks piece works for me and keeps the chest dring free.

 

[rddvet]

I think a lot of the info being thrown out is not accurate. We've been diving all sorts of steels (Faber, Worthingtons, 72s, 95s, 100s 120s) with the Stealth all summer. With stages even. And we've never used the butt plate. A lot of the misinformation is from people that do not know how to set it up properly. Others see this and take it a gospel. As with any other system, for it to work properly, it needs to be set up properly.

Theres definitely tons of misinformation here.

As far as buttplate vs no buttplate it's really a matter of what you like. You can drefinitely run any tank without the buttplate. I've dove heavy worthingtons without a buttplate. To me it doesn't feel as good. I don't like how the weight pulls my waist. It's definitely doable. I discussed buttplate vs no buttplate with patric and his reasonings are the same as what I thought they'd be. The rig was made with al80s in mind and steels as an after thought. Through trials and tribulation they found the buttplate was the best way to comfortably get everyone into steels. Meaning the buttplate makes it easier for the guy with no sm experience and the guy with tons of experience has a choice.

I think it's doable, just not ideal. For example when I dove steels on the waist(both on drings and the square drings) I found it caused the waist strap to loosen a lot even when cinched. After about 25 dives that stopped happening as the webbing broke in. To me that made it not comfortable and therefore the buttplate is my choice for anything heavier than Faber 85s. I think if you take into account the number of people diving sm that don't have enough knowledge to effectively tinker, the buttplate makes their setup easier for big steels.

 

[Patoux01]

I've never had a bungee come off in the water and they hold cave-filled Faber 85's and 95's just fine. Of course you don't need specialized hardware to serve as bungee-keepers, but the Highseas Millworks piece works for me and keeps the chest dring free.

Not going to take a picture, but exactly the same thing works with a triglide Put a triglide on the strap (ideally not the same as the D-ring so you can set it's height), run a small loop through it, make a knot at one side, leave a loop at the other, run the bungee through there. Exactly the same thing, except it only uses stuff everyone has. Not saying yours doesn't work, since they're essentially the same thing that would be stupid.

 

[str8dum]

I dove HP100 steels last weekend and there was no way I was getting them to trim parallel with my body when they were full at 3500 psi while using the square rings or any waist band d clips. Sure once they dropped to 2000psi, they were much easier to align. But that was after an entire 1st hour dive hanging below my hips instead of along side them.

Please share how you dive Hp100s without using the butt plate while keeping the bottles inline with your body. I've got well over 50 dives on my stealth this year, so I feel my setup is pretty well sorted. Going to a smaller bolt snap on the cam band is the only way I can think of. I use an X-large right now with snugged right up to the tri-glide. Medium would make it tough to shove gloved fingers in the loop to open the snap.

I think a lot of the info being thrown out is not accurate. We've been diving all sorts of steels (Faber, Worthingtons, 72s, 95s, 100s 120s) with the Stealth all summer. With stages even. And we've never used the butt plate. A lot of the misinformation is from people that do not know how to set it up properly. Others see this and take it a gospel. As with any other system, for it to work properly, it needs to be set up properly.

Stu, what was the pressure in your tanks when you took that video? 3500psi?

It can be achieved.... this video is one of my first setup tests... i'm diving an Xdeep Stealth, using Steel 12's

 

[Sidemount_Stu]

Stu, what was the pressure in your tanks when you took that video? 3500psi?

From memory, they were full, so around 220 Bar in each (not sure what that is in psi sorry?)

Edit, just used a converter which says about 3190 psi

 

[str8dum]

ya it must just be that the x-large snap bolts are too long and let the rear of the tanks hang too low when on the square rings. the stealth butt plate is only 50$ from europe, so maybe i'll just get that anyhow. another place to clip off the wreck reel etc as well when using al80.

 

[bada3003]

The key elements are negative buoyancy steels and at depth as indicated in my comment. Take 2 Worthington LP85s and go down to 100+ feet in the Great Lakes (temps in low 40s/high 30s). Here are basic facts that relate to the OPs pics:

(a) W/o a butt plate the cylinders will hang low as observed in the pic; with a ~1/3 full cylinder, it'll be less pronounced (I've tried that) but a butt plate is a must.

(b) In cold waters with very thick undergarms, many will need to add extra lead. Obviously the exact amount differs by person. The drysuit is there to take the squeeze out, not for buoyancy control (unless you follow a PADI drysuit course). 100+ feet down, your wing will need to be inflated close to max capacity. A wing with lift in the mid-40s or higher is more adequate for these conditions. I'm not talking generically but specifically to the environment that I mostly dive in and, it seems, the OP does from the initial description. If that's not the case, my comments are not relevant.

(c) Adding a deco/stage bottle makes a difference but it's not a whole lot. The first stage weighs about 2-3 lbs depending on model; an 80/40 AL cylinder adds slight negative buoyancy when full.

Just enough for 2 worthingtons? That's just not accurate.

---------- Post added September 16th, 2014 at 04:43 PM ----------

I think a lot of the info being thrown out is not accurate. We've been diving all sorts of steels (Faber, Worthingtons, 72s, 95s, 100s 120s) with the Stealth all summer. With stages even. And we've never used the butt plate. A lot of the misinformation is from people that do not know how to set it up properly. Others see this and take it a gospel. As with any other system, for it to work properly, it needs to be set up properly.

I'm only conveying my experience and how it might relate to the pictures posted by the OP. I'm actually a big fan of Stealth 2.0 but for the 36 lb lift which in the environments I described I find lacking. If others can get it to work w/o a butt plate and not look like the OP in the pic (good horizontal trim but the bottles are hanging low) for the situation I described, then they must be doing something different. It may help to specify what that is which, to me, seems to violate some laws of physics.

---------- Post added September 16th, 2014 at 04:55 PM ----------

I dove HP100 steels last weekend and there was no way I was getting them to trim parallel with my body when they were full at 3500 psi while using the square rings or any waist band d clips. Sure once they dropped to 2000psi, they were much easier to align. But that was after an entire 1st hour dive hanging below my hips instead of along side them. ...

Some seem to claim they can. Sure, I've tried using medium size bolt snaps. It helps somewhat. Yea, but try manipulating those with thick dry gloves in cold water. Indeed, misinformation seems to be thrown around by folks without specificity to back up their claims. But I remain open minded and willing to hear how they got HP100 cylinders parallel w/o using a butt plate.

 

[rick00001967]

I think a lot of the info being thrown out is not accurate. We've been diving all sorts of steels (Faber, Worthingtons, 72s, 95s, 100s 120s) with the Stealth all summer. With stages even. And we've never used the butt plate. A lot of the misinformation is from people that do not know how to set it up properly. Others see this and take it a gospel. As with any other system, for it to work properly, it needs to be set up properly.

i would love to hear your opinion. if the answers being provided are incorrect in your opinion, then what what you suggest to get the tanks higher towards the back ??

i have smaller clips that i think i will try. i am not sure how the gloves will work on them though. they are about an inch shorter. i am also a bit concerned about the weight capacity of the smaller clips. i emailed dgx where i got them from and they don't have any specs on that. i am not worried about when i am in the water but am a bit concerned if two of the smaller clips can easily carry the weight load if / when out of the water

---------- Post added September 16th, 2014 at 05:24 PM ----------

It can be achieved.... this video is one of my first setup tests... i'm diving an Xdeep Stealth, using Steel 12's in coldwater, attachment point is the square D rings that come with it, no butt plate...... it took some fiddling, and even just an inch on the jubilee clips up or down makes a big difference, as does the choice of bolt snap going up through the band, or down through the band etc.... have a look at this, if you have any questions, just ask..... hope it helps.....[video=vimeo;103240412]http://vimeo.com/103240412[/video]

thx for that stu. i watched it a few times. those look like fabers ?? so i am not sure how heavy they are in water compared to the xs scuba LP 77s i was using. i believe they are made by worthington.

how do i explain / ask this....... if looking at you from behind it looks like the clip on the left tank band (for example) is at about 3 oclock (12 oclock being the top side of the tank) which helps keep the tank higher toward the back. but what prevents the tank from "rolling" or "torquing" to the outside (l/h rolling counter clockwise - r/h rolling clockwise) ?? is the strength of your bungee enough to hold it in that position ??

when i was trying different clip positions i did try it at about 3 oclock (straight down from the burst disc on the left tank - straight down from the valve handle on the right tank - yes i am using standard valves on each tank) but i found the valves and regs were in a bad position (left and right inflator hoses pointed too much into my chest. the bungee couldn't hold the tank from rolling. so right now i have the clips at about a 45 degree angle to the valve (l/h about 1:30 - r/h at about 10:30)

i can only assume it may be due to the buoyancy differences in the tanks we are using. i guess i may have to consider breaking down and actually buying my own tanks. crazy !!

i hope this all makes sense ??

 

[gearhound]

The key elements are negative buoyancy steels and at depth as indicated in my comment. Take 2 Worthington LP85s and go down to 100+ feet in the Great Lakes (temps in low 40s/high 30s). Here are basic facts that relate to the OPs pics:

(a) W/o a butt plate the cylinders will hang low as observed in the pic; with a ~1/3 full cylinder, it'll be less pronounced (I've tried that) but a butt plate is a must.

(b) In cold waters with very thick undergarms, many will need to add extra lead. Obviously the exact amount differs by person. The drysuit is there to take the squeeze out, not for buoyancy control (unless you follow a PADI drysuit course). 100+ feet down, your wing will need to be inflated close to max capacity. A wing with lift in the mid-40s or higher is more adequate for these conditions. I'm not talking generically but specifically to the environment that I mostly dive in and, it seems, the OP does from the initial description. If that's not the case, my comments are not relevant.

This statement is totally wrong. Buoyancy is a function of water displacement. We treat water as incompressible. The only thing that compresses is air. If you need to displace a cubic foot of water to remain neutrally buoyant at 10 feet, you'll need to displace a cubic foot of water to remain neutrally buoyant at a 100 feet...whether it's in your bcd or drysuit. You do not need a bigger wing the deeper you go. Otherwise we would see rebreather divers with gigantic wings.

Not the best clips, but what I have handy right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uAR-c0UKM0
No one is using the buttplate. You'll have to excuse some of the "danglies", as the students are using my Stealths and I have extra webbing just in case I need to make them larger. Same for hose routing. I left one with a long inflator hose just in case someone wanted their inflator routed to the left instead of across the chest.