Latex seals breaking down

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Look guys, latex seals degrade and let go. They always have done, regardless of manufacturer or indeed country of origin. I've had several wrist and neck seals go, and I don't think I've ever eaten in my suit. That and the discomfort of latex seals, the way they pinch your skin and catch the tiny hairs, are why I swapped to neoprene seals. Finding they are more waterproof and seemingly everlasting was a bonus.

IMO latex is a crazy material to make suit seals from.

I'm not a chemist, but I tend to agree. Latex isn't a very chemically stable material. It's usually used for one-time-use, "throwaway" products (surgical gloves, condoms, etc). When manufacturers want a more stable product, they use PVC, silicone, etc. The new silicone drysuit seals may finally be the end of latex in dive gear.
 
IMO latex is a crazy material to make suit seals from.

That is what the first chemist I consulted said.
 
Look guys, latex seals degrade and let go.
Back in the days before silicone, it was not uncommon for us find rubber masks and fins that had large portions turn into goo. I remember when I started getting my first clear silicone masks, I was so grateful that it kept it's elasticity chemical stability much longer than the rubber counterparts. I could care less if they yellowed or went hazy as long as they wouldn't goo up.

Some of our full foot rubber fins would get floppy and the edges of the back of the foot pocket would crack. The crack would turn into a tear when you were trying to put the fin in your foot. That kind of failure was repairable. We would cut a strip of inner tube and glue it with rubber cement wrapping that patch all around the heel of the fin foot. This would usually add a couple of years to a fin. The goo problem was an instant killer though. No way to recover from that. It was an automatic trip to the trash can for that fin or mask. I lost some of my favorite childhood masks to the goo :depressed:
 
Look guys, latex seals degrade and let go.

People used to believe that heavier objects fell faster than lighter objects (if you still think this, don't admit to it) - it was so self-evident that few bothered to investigate it.

Of course the seals degrade - we are wondering why. If one knows why, perhaps a simple tonic can be concocted and added to a "save a dive" kit that will enable one to complete a two-week liveaboard excursion.

Scientific inquiry has led us very far.
 
Having described the process of diving, rinsing, and drying a suit, he feels that:

  • The formation of one discrete area of "goo" is more consistent with a biological growth than with chemical contamination;


  • Most of mine turned to goo, not just a discrete spot. (PS. There was a variation in the rate of decay, from the tips of the seals to their roots.)

    I wouldn't have expected latex to last, but those with more experience around these things than myself, were quite interested to see what the seals had turned into.

    In a conversation I had with Whites about a month ago, was told they'd changed the compound in the seals from that used in the early suits.
 
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In a conversation I had with Whites about a month ago, was told they'd changed the compound in the seals from that used in the early suits.

Rubber insulation containing lead has been noted to resist bacterial decay better than non-leaded insulation. I am not suggesting that lead should be incorporated into the latex, but it might not hurt longevity...
 
Can I take it that no-one having picked up on my mention of neoprene seals means that people here generally have not heard of them? Perhaps they're not used in the US? In Britain they're very common and provide a perfect solution to the problem - they never degrade or rip, they're extremely comfortable, and they seal better than latex. Why look for silicone seals when there is neoprene?
 
People used to believe that heavier objects fell faster than lighter objects (if you still think this, don't admit to it)...
Petryk.... play nice...

Ok, I'm a chemist but I haven't professionally worked as a chemist for around 10 yrs. So don't ask me too many questions and if you do expect a lot of "I do not recall...".

Latex is the sap from the rubber trees. It can also be produced synthetically. Latex is used to make natural rubber. Uncured natural rubber is sticky, not very elastic because it easily deforms... Sound familiar? *say goop*. You usually cure rubber through a vulcanization process. At the molecular level, what the vulcanization process does is create crosslinking bonds between the long chain molecules of rubber. The bonds usually use something like sulfur atoms.

The reason why rubber becomes stable and elastic when vulcanized is because the crosslinking bonds prevent the long molecular chains from moving independently from each other. You can apply stress and deform the structure, but the crosslinking will bring back the chain molecules to its original position once stress is relieved. If the crosslinking sulfur bonds are suddenly broken the nice elastic and stable rubber returns to goop.

There are many reasons why the sulfur bonds could break. Radiation with particles that have a higher energy than the strength of the bonds could break it (eg UV from the sun). Solvents, chemical reactions with substances that bond with sulfur, the presence of catalytic agents that enable a reaction with other substances that would otherwise have no effect on rubber, etc.

Keep in mind that in the explanation above I am grossly oversimplifying. There are additives, stabilizers, patented formulas and procedures to modify the properties of cured rubber. By modifying many combinations of different properties you can regulate the likelihood to return to goop. So just as in many other things, there are different grades of rubber. Maybe adding lead has a stabilizing effect, but it could also has a toxic effect when in contact to the skin. Maybe a higher rubber grade requires a more expensive and careful manufacturing procedure like doing better longer mixing of ingredients in the vat to avoid creating portions of the rubber batch that don't have enough sulfur or have too little of stabilizer x.

Current chemical knowledge is more than enough to allow rubber producers to come up with safe and stable seals for drysuits. It will not be eternal, but it should be reliable. If it is not stable within a reasonable amount of time then you have a defective rubber seal. If there are lots of people experiencing this failure, then it is most likely that a large defective batch was distributed to drysuit manufacturers, or the manufacturers are simply not specifying the correct grade of rubber to fulfill the expectations of the end consumers. And then there's always the superior silicone alternatives.

It is the same situation that you would find with metals and metal properties and grades. As an end consumer you would not expect your car's suspension springs to break up in the 3rd year of the car's life because of excessive corrosion. If they do it's either a defect or the manufacturer needs to tell the user to change springs every 2 years.
 
Can I take it that no-one having picked up on my mention of neoprene seals means that people here generally have not heard of them?
I have a drysuit with neoprene seals and another with latex seals. Neoprene is harder to put on but as you pointed, it can take much more punishment. Comparatively speaking, I'm babying the latex seals a lot more than neoprene. At the end of the day the extra effort to put on a neoprene seal is not significant enough to dissuade me from using it. Likewise the extra effort to take care or maintain latex seals is not significant enough either. So far I have not had my latex seals turn to goop, but when it comes time to change them I intend on using silicone.
 
I've used a neoprene neck seal -- they have an issue for women, in that the ratio of our head circumference to our neck is greater than in men. If the seal really fits well and snugly, it's nearly impossible to get on; if you can get it over your head, it's going to leak. This is not just my experience -- this is what Jill Heinerth wrote in the recent cave diving compendium.

Neoprene wrist seals are problematic because it is very difficult to put dry gloves on them, if you want to preserve the seals. Diving Concepts has some type of ring system for them, but that's the only one I know of. There are lots of options for latex seals.

I can, truly, live with the drying and cracking problem. It's easy to patch -- my Mobby's seals lasted me almost two years with duct tape patches near the junction with the suit. But the goo is untenable, because the seal just disintegrates.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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