LDS says My Torus 26 doesnt have enough LIFT

[kidsdream]

Your real issue may not be if the rig will be adequate for if you in it, but would it float by itself if you choose to take it off in the water.

When I dive of a with my Jupiter friends, we take our rigs in the water to make it easier to get up into their 24' center console (with only a 1 step ladder). My point is if you add a couple of lights etc. and you get out of the your rig, your 26lb wing is not really going to cut.

I know Tobin and I don't agree on this, but in rough seas I like at least 3Olbs of buoyancy with a single mid-size steel tank.

 

[Scott L]

Your real issue may not be if the rig will be adequate for if you in it, but would it float by itself if you choose to take it off in the water.

When I dive of a with my Jupiter friends, we take our rigs in the water to make it easier to get up into their 24' center console (with only a 1 step ladder). My point is if you add a couple of lights etc. and you get out of the your rig, your 26lb wing is not really going to cut.

I know Tobin and I don't agree on this, but in rough seas I like at least 3Olbs of buoyancy with a single mid-size steel tank.

I could not agree more. DSS's wings are already very streamline. I do not understand their postion for less lift in open ocean diving. In 3-4ft+ seas I prefer to float a bit higher out of the water thank you very much. My best friend's 34' open console utilizes no ladder thus the need to doff rig in water...

 

[Mike Boswell]

Your real issue may not be if the rig will be adequate for if you in it, but would it float by itself if you choose to take it off in the water.

When I dive of a with my Jupiter friends, we take our rigs in the water to make it easier to get up into their 24' center console (with only a 1 step ladder). My point is if you add a couple of lights etc. and you get out of the your rig, your 26lb wing is not really going to cut.

I know Tobin and I don't agree on this, but in rough seas I like at least 3Olbs of buoyancy with a single mid-size steel tank.

I could not agree more. DSS's wings are already very streamline. I do not understand their postion for less lift in open ocean diving. In 3-4ft+ seas I prefer to float a bit higher out of the water thank you very much. My best friend's 34' open console utilizes no ladder thus the need to doff rig in water...

I agree completely. There are all kinds of real-world conditions under which you may want a little extra buoyancy. You could be carrying extra gear, or some weights for a buddy, or some lead you found on the bottom, or a few lobsters. You might find yourself on the surface in less-than-ideal conditions. You could be sick or injured.

When my wife and I took the Rescue course, we quickly discovered that extra buoyancy can be a very good thing to have in an emergency, where you may need to provide some buoyant support to hold a victim's head above water, or position yourself over them for rescue breathing.

People who sell BCD's say that the product is meant as a buoyancy compensator, not a life vest. But the fact is, there may be times when a diver needs a life vest, and that wing will be all you have.

After looking at many of the wings available, we chose the Oxycheq 40# wings, which are very compact, but give you the extra buoyancy if you need it.

 

[scubafanatic]

I agree completely. There are all kinds of real-world conditions under which you may want a little extra buoyancy. You could be carrying extra gear, or some weights for a buddy, or some lead you found on the bottom, or a few lobsters. You might find yourself on the surface in less-than-ideal conditions. You could be sick or injured.

When my wife and I took the Rescue course, we quickly discovered that extra buoyancy can be a very good thing to have in an emergency, where you may need to provide some buoyant support to hold a victim's head above water, or position yourself over them for rescue breathing.

People who sell BCD's say that the product is meant as a buoyancy compensator, not a life vest. But the fact is, there may be times when a diver needs a life vest, and that wing will be all you have.

After looking at many of the wings available, we chose the Oxycheq 40# wings, which are very compact, but give you the extra buoyancy if you need it.

...me too, I'm using the Oxy 40# single and 42 # doubles wings, and I just don't see any real world downside to that versus a smaller lift wing...the Oxy's are very compact/hydrodynamic and I want a bit of extra lift for a rainy day.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hello to all

I recently purchased a Torus26 (DSS) wing and was told by my LDS it would NOT provide sufficent lift for my configuration and that I needed atleast a 30. I dive DRY (FLEX 50/50), Farber 85 LP Steel single, DSS Steel medium BP and use Xscuba weight pockets. I weight approx 165lbs, and Dive Salt Water (New Jersey) except for Fresh water Training.

Of course floating the rig on the surface was a concern to My LDS, what also was mentioned was the concern of a "Catastropic Dry Suit Failure,, I was Under the Impression "Catastropic Dry Suit Failure" was not a reality.

Any ideas as to my perception that my Tourus 26 is sufficent is ok with my configuration??? How can i configure my Rig to be able to use the Torus26 Safely??

Or am I all WET??????

First, If you want my specific advice I'd suggest posting in the DSS forum.

I may not see every post in every forum.

Second, I have never been in favor of placing 100% of the divers ballast on their rig. Doing so can require a larger wing than necessary if some of the divers ballast is carried in a weight belt.

I'm pretty specific in my recommendations. If divers choose to change how they configure their gear after receiving my recommendation it may no longer apply.

Your plate, harness, regulator, and full cylinder will be about -17 lbs. You can add ~8 lbs of lead to the rig before your exceed the capacity of a Torus 26.

If you really need 16 lbs of lead in addition to the ballast your rig provides, and if you choose to secure this 16 lbs of lead to your rig (a mistake in my opinion) then even the "30" your LDS is recommending will be insufficient 17 + 16 = 33 33 > 30. How did your LDS arrive at their recommendation?

Have you tested your exposure suit? Your rig provides about 10 lbs of ballast with an empty cylinder.

10 lbs + 16 lbs of lead = 26 lbs. This is within the known range for drysuits, but may not be the buoyancy of *YOUR* suit.

As mentioned by others the easy solution is to move a portion of your ballast *OFF* your rig and onto a belt.

Tobin

 

[Guy Alcala]

Their website is nonsencical. Every other specification resource has them at 6.7lbs at 2640psi. I increased the fill pressure to 8lbs to reflect a normally attainable LP cylinder fill to more accurately calculate an actual dive. I assume the other poster did the same...

Scuba Cylinder Specifications from Tech Diving Limited - 928-855-9400

Scuba Cylinder Specification Chart from Huron Scuba, Ann Arbor Michigan

As mentioned in a post upthread, Faber has made something like six different tanks around 85 cu. ft. I've had the Huron Scuba chart since 2007, at which time I noticed that the buoyancy numbers didn't agree with those in the 2007 OMS catalog (Faber made OMS tanks at the time). Nor did the catalog stats agree with the stats for my OMS LP112s, bought used, and which agreed with the Huron Scuba spec. The current Faber stats are the same as the ones in that 2007 OMS catalog.

The simplest and most likely explanation is that Faber changed the design of the tanks, making them less negative (and thus, more suitable for freshwater doubles). Given the choice between believing the manufacturer's _current_ specs and the Huron Scuba/TDL chart, I'll put my trust on the manufacturer until proven otherwise. It appears to me that the TDL chart just copies the Huron Scuba one for older tanks, but adds the Worthingtons and interestingly, also has different buoyancy numbers from the ones Worthington/XS Scuba claim.

As to increasing the negative buoyancy of LP tanks to reflect typical fills, what a typical fill is varies from place to place. You aren't going to get cave fills where I live and dive, unless you fill your own. Without using the same fill pressure comparison is meaningless.

Guy

 

[Scott L]

As mentioned in a post upthread, Faber has made something like six different tanks around 85 cu. ft. I've had the Huron Scuba chart since 2007, at which time I noticed that the buoyancy numbers didn't agree with those in the 2007 OMS catalog (Faber made OMS tanks at the time). Nor did the catalog stats agree with the stats for my OMS LP112s, bought used, and which agreed with the Huron Scuba spec. The current Faber stats are the same as the ones in that 2007 OMS catalog.

The simplest and most likely explanation is that Faber changed the design of the tanks, making them less negative (and thus, more suitable for freshwater doubles). Given the choice between believing the manufacturer's _current_ specs and the Huron Scuba/TDL chart, I'll put my trust on the manufacturer until proven otherwise. It appears to me that the TDL chart just copies the Huron Scuba one for older tanks, but adds the Worthingtons and interestingly, also has different buoyancy numbers from the ones Worthington/XS Scuba claim.

As to increasing the negative buoyancy of LP tanks to reflect typical fills, what a typical fill is varies from place to place. You aren't going to get cave fills where I live and dive, unless you fill your own. Without using the same fill pressure comparison is meaningless.

Guy

You may well be right but those specs are weird...Full -3.80 lb. Empty +2.32 lb.

 

[rjack321]

The simplest and most likely explanation is that Faber changed the design of the tanks, making them less negative (and thus, more suitable for freshwater doubles). Given the choice between believing the manufacturer's _current_ specs and the Huron Scuba/TDL chart, I'll put my trust on the manufacturer until proven otherwise. It appears to me that the TDL chart just copies the Huron Scuba one for older tanks, but adds the Worthingtons and interestingly, also has different buoyancy numbers from the ones Worthington/XS Scuba claim.

As to increasing the negative buoyancy of LP tanks to reflect typical fills, what a typical fill is varies from place to place. You aren't going to get cave fills where I live and dive, unless you fill your own. Without using the same fill pressure comparison is meaningless.

Guy

No the simplest answer is that OMS didn't get the numbers right. Neither did XScuba for a time. Faber doesn't actually publish buoyancy numbers all of these sources are essentially making them up based on weight and water capacity (you could too actually).

 

[Scared Silly]

As mentioned in a post upthread, Faber has made something like six different tanks around 85 cu. ft. I've had the Huron Scuba chart since 2007, at which time I noticed that the buoyancy numbers didn't agree with those in the 2007 OMS catalog (Faber made OMS tanks at the time). Nor did the catalog stats agree with the stats for my OMS LP112s, bought used, and which agreed with the Huron Scuba spec. The current Faber stats are the same as the ones in that 2007 OMS catalog.

It all depends on whether the valve has been taken into account.

 

[RJP]

Hello to all

I recently purchased a Torus26 (DSS) wing and was told by my LDS it would NOT provide sufficent lift for my configuration and that I needed atleast a 30. I dive DRY (FLEX 50/50), Farber 85 LP Steel single, DSS Steel medium BP and use Xscuba weight pockets. I weight approx 165lbs, and Dive Salt Water (New Jersey) except for Fresh water Training.

I crew on a boat here in NJ and see a great many people with insufficient buoyancy with singles wings.

All the calculations in the world are great for a dead-flat body of water but the fact is that if you're close on buoyancy "on paper" then you just might find yourself having a problem when the seas kick up... especially if the water is "pointy" on top. Not an uncommon occurrence here in NJ. If you're bobbing up and down you'll find it harder to establish buoyancy than just floating in a quarry. (salinity notwithstanding

Whether there is a specific enough difference in 26lbs in your wing vs a 30lb wing is hard to say, but I've seen plenty of people diving singles who could use an extra few pounds of lift. Especially if you come up with a bug or two, or maybe some scallops.