LDS's are just too expensive

[J.R.]

One other thing to think about with regard to the ecconomics of dive shops... *some* of the internet sites are also *brick and morter* shops... they're huge. This allows them to buy in large quantities from the manufacturers... this also gives them the ability to buy cheaper... sell cheaper.

Most LDS don't deal in this kind of volumn... it means that they're paying higher prices for the goods they put on their shelves than *the big boys*... so, it could be argued that one of the reasons an LDS is more expensive is because of the competition... if they could move more gear... and buy in higher quantity they could pass along the savings.

When you buy from an internet site you don't really know if they're a *real store* (i.e., carry inventory) or if they're simply taking your order... placing it with another store... then passing the product, along with a relatively small mark up... along to you. It *does* happen...

The ecconomics of running a dive shop aren't good (oh... and then there's that *insurance thing*... another overhead cost that internet sites don't need to worry about).

Basically it comes down to "full service" is always gonna' be more expensive than "roll your own"... there have been a lot of folks who've tried to figure out how to make it otherwise but the vast majority of them end up closing their doors.

I can't say I really *know* the ecconomics of dive shops... as I said earlier, I don't work in one (but I have been in sales in other lines... the same *rules* apply)... but I'd bet that the principle source of income for an LDS is not from equipment sales... I'd say more than likely it comes from classes, trips, services (maintenance, inspections, etc.)... But... who's gonna' go to a dive shop with no gear on the walls??? So... they carry an inventory and make a judgement call about how diverse their selection can be and they can afford.

Basically the best I can tell ya'... an LDS is an assett to all of us... but, like a lot of relationships in nature, its a symbiotic thing... we support them... they support us... both survive.

But don't get me wrong... I don't by *everything* from my LDS... bags and a lot of the accessories I'll internet shop... regs, BC, tanks, dive comp... those came from the LDS... I kinda' see it as a 'give a little... take a little' thing... the LDS doesn't get all my business... but they don't get iced either.

... hope this gives some of the answers you seem to be looking for...

 

[newjack06]

One other thing to think about with regard to the ecconomics of dive shops... *some* of the internet sites are also *brick and morter* shops... they're huge. This allows them to buy in large quantities from the manufacturers... this also gives them the ability to buy cheaper... sell cheaper.

Most LDS don't deal in this kind of volumn... it means that they're paying higher prices for the goods they put on their shelves than *the big boys*... so, it could be argued that one of the reasons an LDS is more expensive is because of the competition... if they could move more gear... and buy in higher quantity they could pass along the savings.

When you buy from an internet site you don't really know if they're a *real store* (i.e., carry inventory) or if they're simply taking your order... placing it with another store... then passing the product, along with a relatively small mark up... along to you. It *does* happen...

The ecconomics of running a dive shop aren't good (oh... and then there's that *insurance thing*... another overhead cost that internet sites don't need to worry about).

Basically it comes down to "full service" is always gonna' be more expensive than "roll your own"... there have been a lot of folks who've tried to figure out how to make it otherwise but the vast majority of them end up closing their doors.

I can't say I really *know* the ecconomics of dive shops... as I said earlier, I don't work in one (but I have been in sales in other lines... the same *rules* apply)... but I'd bet that the principle source of income for an LDS is not from equipment sales... I'd say more than likely it comes from classes, trips, services (maintenance, inspections, etc.)... But... who's gonna' go to a dive shop with no gear on the walls??? So... they carry an inventory and make a judgement call about how diverse their selection can be and they can afford.

Basically the best I can tell ya'... an LDS is an assett to all of us... but, like a lot of relationships in nature, its a symbiotic thing... we support them... they support us... both survive.

But don't get me wrong... I don't by *everything* from my LDS... bags and a lot of the accessories I'll internet shop... regs, BC, tanks, dive comp... those came from the LDS... I kinda' see it as a 'give a little... take a little' thing... the LDS doesn't get all my business... but they don't get iced either.

... hope this gives some of the answers you seem to be looking for...

i didn't get my gear from a big internet site. i purchased my gear from divers-supply, which is a dive shop chain in Geogia and Florida, and scuba mart which is a small outfit outside savannah. these shops are so small, they still keep their records on paper.

 

[Danman589019]

I shop at a LDS, it just happens to be in Texas.

 

[mthirsc]

I'm kind of in the middle on this... stuff that may need service, like regs, I buy at my LDS... In fact I just took advantage of that service. Other stuff... say, a backplate or an SPG, I buy online because of the better selection more than the price. Still, I have thrown my LDS plenty of business. However, I couldn't stomach paying double for a 3mm wetsuit and I bought that online. More money left over for me to spend at the LDS.

 

[nivla80]

I guess it's a mutual support thing. My LDS takes my money via the courses I took with 'em, from OW till Rescue and Nitrox. However I get my gear online, cos of the fact that I'm a poor college kid who simply love to dive, and cannot afford the justifiable price in LDS.

So in all, I guess it's fair in my case. I spent a lot more on courses than I did on gear, so I guess it's all justified. My 2 cents

 

[Paco]

The more you buy at your LDS, the more discounts they should be giving you.

 

[J.R.]

i didn't get my gear from a big internet site. i purchased my gear from divers-supply, which is a dive shop chain in Geogia and Florida, and scuba mart which is a small outfit outside savannah. these shops are so small, they still keep their records on paper.

Must be a different ScubaMart than the one I find on the internet... when ya' "Google Search" on it, ScubaMart shows up as being in San Rafael and San Fransicso... ... and divers-supply is far from small... 7 stores... been in business 25 years... one store is described as 35,000 sq. feet and having a heated pool for classes.

... anyway... what it really all comes down to is that you gotta' do what you gotta' do... If you're good with buyin' off the internet... so be it. If you're an LDS supporter... so be it. But in either case it's a personal decision.

 

[LittleBug]

I have bought all my gear at the LDS. I think I only bought a tank beacon online in all the time I've been diving. (After scouring all the local stores to see if they had that one first.)

I buy locally because honestly I'd rather that money go to the guy who owns my shop than out of state. The money I give to him helps him feed his family. He just might spend some of those dollars locally too, and we've helped another local business owner feed his family. I pay the 7% sales tax to buy from him because my tax dollars benefit my local community.

If I bought online I am lining the pockets of a stranger, and not someone who has become a dear friend of mine. If I bought online, my dollars would benefit other people in some other state, when really I'd rather benefit the people who live in my community.

Sure, it might cost a little more. But I know that if I have a problem I can go back and say "Hey, will you take a look at this for me?" and he will. I don't have to dig up a box, go to the UPS store, and pay to ship it.

My LDS owner also does a lot for the local community. He holds movie nights in the shop to get everyone together and hang out. He sponsors clean up events so that our ocean will be clean so we all can enjoy it. Does your online store do that?

That being said, I would rather eat at a local restaurant than a chain (not only is the food better, but I'd rather support a local chef.) I'd rather buy from the local lumber yard in my neighborhood than go to Home Depot. I buy American made products when ever I can, because I'd rather Americans be employed than have the work go overseas.

 

[talonraid]

I look at LDS and internet sites as a function of the changing marketplace and the world. Businesses of all types are having to adapt to the internet and a World market, not just the local area. I agree that we need brick and mortar LDS. Otherwise, where do new divers get certified, or certified divers get continuing education. We need them. However, they will have to adapt to the changing market or fail. When the demand is there, entreprenuers or smart business owners will fill the gap. I don't necessarily care for the internet shops that are not licensed dealers and I choose not to buy from them....anymore. However, there's a shop in Texas that sells at the same prices as those unauthorized dealers...so it can be done.

There are a few LDS in my city that simply have chosen not to adapt for whatever reason. One shop I used to go to did not have a website, and business is extremely slow. The owner is a nice personable guy with plenty of experience. He's been in this city for decades. I urged him to invest in some internet marketing and he decided to pay a teenage kid to build a website and it gets updated with class information about every 4 or 5 months. It's almost useless. He will not budge from marked prices and keeps very little stock on hand. He has no computer skills and doesn't even check the e-mails that his basic website does generate. I even offered to go work there some on my days off and help him with marketing and the website....he doesn't want to change. I think this will be his last year. It's depressing to walk in the door and have him tell me I'm the first person he's seen all day and it's 5:00 p.m.

In the past year we have had two LDS start changing the way they operate. They've created nice websites with easy to navigate pages, but still don't sell their stuff online. One of them is considereing it because they see how much business they're losing to that LDS shop to the city up North of us (ScubaToys), and realize that if they want to compete they must adapt. They're investing in a storage building to house the internet stock. Businesses have ALWAYS had to invest money to make money. Just like the old saying ,"you have to pay to learn to shoot pool."

Another small dive shop just opened in a sub-urb north of us. They have started with an online store and offer classes, air fills from the guy's garage, etc. The brick and mortar building should be open this summer. They saw the demand....provided the supply and are now becoming a brick and mortar business built on a smart business plan for today's market. Darwin would be proud.

Would we still be buying half the stuff we own the way our parents or grandparents bought them, just because they were fun places to go? As a kid I loved going to the soda fountain at the local drug store waiting for the druggist to mix whatever presciption someone in my family needed, but those days are gone. Cars, pharmeceuticals, groceries, all of our consumer products and the businesses that offer them have to change with the economy.

I await your spears!

 

[dschulte]

i didn't get my gear from a big internet site. i purchased my gear from divers-supply, which is a dive shop chain in Geogia and Florida, and scuba mart which is a small outfit outside savannah. these shops are so small, they still keep their records on paper.

Divers Supply is not a small shop. They have 7 stores in NC, FL and GA and have one of the most successfuly Internet sales businesses for a brick and motor scuba shop. They move some very large invetories which allows them to give great deals. One important fact about them; many of their items are actually less expensive when you walk into thier store locations than through their ebay or Inernet stores. Most locatoins have pools for training and an extremely large and loyal customer base. This took years to build and started as a small shop in 1977. They are the worlds largest scuba diving dealer. Leisure Pro is a New York City based brick and motor, supported by the families jewelry business. They move huge quanities of inventory as well. You walk into their shop and you will find the same pricing as their Internet sales and again some items discounted even less. Scuba Mart and Scuba Toys are smaller operations that get great deals on close outs and factory specials. Scuba Mart, at least the Internet store I know of, is based in San Rafael California not Savannah Georgia. Scuba Toys, a fantastic site sponsor, is located in Carrollton Texas. They have a fantastic store out there and have grown their Internet business on offering excellent deals, very low Internet profit margins. They also offer a 10% discount to SB members.

These Internet companies are not small operations. They have established store fronts that were the foundation of the Internet business. Out of the gate you can not deliver a simular pricing scheme without that foundation. Give the local LDS's a break and just enjoy the sport. You found the equipment you wanted for now, hopefully the warranty is not the standard "Internet" warranty where you have to send it back to Divers Supply or other retailer for factory warranty service. Enjoy your gear, it was a great deal, dive safe and have fun. When you start your DM program, maybe you will understand the challenges to the LDS and the limitations that exist on pricing at typical level of purchase.
:monkeydan