long term diving effects

[Papa_Bear]

Good luck and keep us informed! My Prayers are with you, but I don't think diving has anything to do with what you have! Is sounds more like what I had and it is a type of autoimmune problem???

 

[NiclasG]

hi , i have been diving for 18 years, commercially for 14 of them. the majority of this was inland between 1 - 60 ft. my deepest dive is 170 ft. Recently i have been diagnosed with vascular disease in my brain, with demyelining. my question is could this be related to diving , ive never suffered a dcs hit , at least that i know of or that was apparant at the time. altho i know the depths arent that deep i averaged about four hours a day for 10 years bottomtime. my longest time ever in a hat was 12 hours but this was at only 8 ft of water approx. lol btw i should add i have always followed the tables religiously and so did co-workers , any info appreciated , thx jim g

I am very sad to hear about your diagnosis, just a couple of comments. The danger for a professional divers are silent bubbles. silent bubbles cause damage but you do not experience anything. Bubbles activate the immune system and cause a myriad of changes. Another matter of fact is that a lot of DCS cases goes undiagnosed, some say 30%. I hope that there will be a time when we can monitor bubbling online and adjust schedules accordingly. Diving according to a schedule is pretty safe, for a casual diver like me. I used to be in the diving business but no more.

Niclas

 

[cudachaser]

I have been diving over 45 years. I'm an instructor and dive 200+ dives annually. Over the past 10 years I have developed neuropathy in my lower legs. My neurologist attributes the neuropathy to exposure to a certain rocket fuel I was exposed to when I worked at the Cape. He knows that I dive a lot and he has not made any connection there. I have had MRIs and the root cause of the neuropathy is cervical stenosis. How the rocket fuel and stenosis are related...I haven't a clue. My neurologist has written several papers on this.

 

[DocVikingo]

Hi commdiver_12,

Apparently the clinical picture is more involved and serious than originally presented.

Based on the descriptions to date, it seems unlikely that a history of commercial diving is a major causative factor.

Best of luck and please keep the board updated.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[commdiver_12]

hi

hope all you guys are doing good , docvingo , i wanted to ask where i may find some of the information that you were speaking of ..ie the effects of long term diving because a lot of what you said are the symptoms i have , and the doc cant explain th ecause for the abnormal periventricular foci , because i havent had a stroke or anything like that , up untill this i was really healthy , the doc still says my heart sounds like im 20, anyway any help would be appreciated.....on a personal note the wonderful company i ran jobs for for ten years yanked my insurance cause im not fit to dive , or run a job at the present time , and may never be avble to come back. guess thats appreciation for all the years i froze my but off , and the millions ive made him....btw if you guys would like to see some of the wqork ive done you can get ariel photographs of heinz field stadium waterfront , we did all the underwater concrete forming , also lock 4 braddock dam in pa , i think they have soem good photos of that construction

thanks for the support and help guys
and try not to swallow to much water
jim g

 

[DCBC]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems Jim. I too have been diving commercially for a number of years and although I've been in a supervisory role for the last 20, I wouldn't be surprised if I faced an unexpected occupationally related problem at some point. There is so much that just isn't known about the long-term affects of pressure on the human body. I'd like to wish you God's speed in your recovery and if you have a chance, stop by the commercial diving area on SB.

Wayne

 

[DocVikingo]

... docvingo , i wanted to ask where i may find some of the information that you were speaking of ..ie the effects of long term diving because a lot of what you said are the symptoms i have , and the doc cant explain th ecause for the abnormal periventricular foci....)

Hi James,

Be aware that controversy remains. The following references should get you started on the published literature suggesting there may be insult to brain as a function of diving, particularly professional/commercial SCUBA.

- Palmer AC, Calder IM, Yates PO. Cerebral vasculopathy in divers. Neuropathol Appl Neurobiol 1992;18:113-24.

- Reul J, Weis J, Jung A, Willmes K, Thron A. Central nervous system lesions and cervical disc herniations in amateur divers. Lancet 1995;345:1403-5.

- Tetzlaff K, Friege L, Hutzelmann A, Reuter M, Höll D, Leplow B. Magnetic resonance signal abnormalities and neuropsychological deficits in elderly compressed-air divers. Eur Neurol. 1999;42(4):194-9.

- Markus Schwerzmann, MD; Christian Seiler, MD; Ernst Lipp, MD; Raphael Guzman, MD; Karl O. Lo'vblad, MD; Martin Kraus, MD. and Nils Kucher, MD. Ann Intern Med. 2001;134:21-24. Relation between Directly Detected Patent Foramen Ovale and Ischemic Brain Lesions in Sport Divers.

- D. Tripodi, B. Dupas, M. Potiron, S. Louvet, C. Geraut1. Int J Sports Med 2004; 25(8): 575-581. Brain Magnetic Resonance Imaging, Aerobic Power, and Metabolic Parameters Among 30 Asymptomatic Scuba Dive.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[JonKranhouse]

Jim,

Here’s a link to two web pages by Ern Campbell, MD. These pages summarize most of the research DocVikingo cited + MUCH MUCH more:

Chronic Neurological Adverse Effects of Diving and
Long Term Effects of Sport Diving
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There is a notable HBOT MD you may want to consult with: Dr. Paul Harch.
Harch has developed HBOT treatment tables based upon peer-reviewed animal and human testing. He usually uses just 1.5 ATA (which maximizes cerebral O2 and glucose) X 40 to 120 treatments. Before-and-after SPECT brain scans document restored vascularization, which is the first step allowing the body to heal itself. Neurological functions of some injured commercial divers who had “plateaued” per Navy / UHMS treatment tables have dramatically improved under Harch's treatment.

Patient IQs have been significantly restored. This may or may not be appropriate for your condition. But I do know there is great conflict between hyperbaricists, and getting other opinions can be helpful - I AM NOT a medical doctor, but I've learned much about the politics of HBOT as you can read in this recent thread (scan the thread for my posts).

Harch has been an expert witness for some injured divers he's treated, who were often represented by attorney Thomas Edwards of Domengeaux, Wright, Roy & Edwards. Reliable sources tell me that senior UHMS MDs have often been expert witnesses for the defense in injured commercial diver cases. But when Edwards is involved for the plaintiff, backed by Harch's before-and-after SPECT scans, the plaintiff usually wins a settlement.

From Harch’s website:
Dr. Paul Harch is a board certified hyperbaric and emergency medicine physician who has become one of the foremost authorities in the United States on the use of hyperbaric oxygen therapy and SPECT brain blood flow imaging in neurology. Dr. Harch is a magna cum laude, phi beta kappa graduate of the University of California, Irvine in 1976 and Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in 1980 who has trained in general surgery and radiology. His hyperbaric career began in 1985. He received initial diving accident management training through the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration and then prolonged instruction and experience under the direction of and in association with one of the world's most noted diving medicine experts, Dr. Keith Van Meter.

With the aid of a steady supply of injured divers from the Gulf of Mexico Dr. Harch began an in-depth study of brain decompression illness (DCI) in the late 1980's. As he evaluated divers with brain DCI presenting for primary treatment weeks to months after their accident or with residual brain injury following neurological plateau on the standard U.S. Navy recompression protocol, it became obvious he was treating ischemic (low blood flow) brain injury and not residual gas. This was unequivocally confirmed in 1990 and 1991 with two diving cases, a 43 year old demented commercial diver 7 months after injury and 5 months after U.S. Navy treatment plateau, and a 33 year old demented junior high school math teacher, misdiagnosed and committed to a psychiatric hospital after a diving accident and then aborted suicide attempt. Following a call to Dr. Neubauer in April, 1990, Dr. Harch began treating the first diver and eventually achieved clinical, psychometric, and SPECT brain blood flow improvement.

The second diver experienced normalization of his EEG, complete recovery of neurological function and a 22 point recoup of his pre-accident IQ before the end of his treatment protocol. He returned to work and obtained a masters' degree in educational psychology. Today, he is actively employed by the State of New Mexico, testing educationally handicapped children. Dr. Harch reported these cases and subsequent others at scientific meetings.

Simultaneously, Drs. Van Meter and Sheldon Gottlieb, a colleague of Dr. Neubauer and director of research at the Baromedical Research Institute of New Orleans, were conducting a trial of hyperbaric oxygen therapy in brain injured boxers with a small grant from the Hirsch Foundation. Encouraging preliminary results from this study and results from the divers and the small series of chronic traumatic brain injured and stroke patients spawned the Perfusion/Metabolism Encephalopathy Study of Drs. Harch, Gottlieb, Van Meter, and Staab under the auspices of the JoEllen Smith Medical Center Institutional Review Board. This study commenced in 1993, terminated in 1999, and allowed the evaluation and treatment with hyperbaric oxygen therapy and SPECT brain imaging of a large number of patients with a variety of chronic neurological diseases, including decompression sickness, stroke, traumatic brain injury, carbon monoxide poisoning, cerebral palsy, near-drowning, toxic brain injury, cardiac arrest, static encephalopathy of childhood, autism, and others.
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Much of Harch’s most recent work involves using HBOT to heal traumatic brain injury (TBI).

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PART 2:

 

[DocVikingo]

Yup, just about whatever malady you may have Dr. Paul Harch will want to HBOT it.

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[JonKranhouse]

(emphasis added) Yup, just about whatever malady you may have Dr. Paul Harch will want to HBOT it.
Regards,
DocVikingo
(posted April 20, 2010)

I believe your statement might be considered libelous. Can you cite where Harch has claimed HBOT is appropriate for "just about whatever malady you may have?"

Peer reviewed research by hundreds of doctors around the world finds efficacy for HBOT for ~132 maladies -- hardly the panoply of "just about whatever malady you may have."

Harch's research is published in respected peer-reviewed journals; he's written that willy-nilly application of HBOT is wrong: The Dosage of Hyperbaric Oxygen in Chronic Brain Injury (sometimes, "NO treatment is best").

Harch's past efforts NOW PREVENT ~13,500 foot amputations each year - Harch pioneered the research that got Medicare to accept HBOT for diabetic foot wounds -- the first new malady approved by CMS (medicare) in 18 years.

Doctors from around the world, like Dr. Harch, are using and researching HBOT's efficacy for childhood cerebral palsy, autism, stroke, delaying onset of dementia and traumatic brain injury. Nowhere but the USA has HBOT been so suppressed for treating these neurological maladies (which are maladies targeted by patented pharmaceuticals). This should not be HBOT vs. pharmaceuticals. HBOT can often potentiate lower doses of pharmaceuticals to reduce side-effects.

The IHMA was created because the UHMS refused to consider HBOT for Traumatic Brain Injury, per this report.
(More RE conflicts between the UHMS and IHMA).

Brigadier General Patt Maney, also a Florida appellate judge, was hit by an IED in Afghanistan. After 18 months at Walter Reed Maney still had difficulty putting full sentences together. HBOT was suggested to Maney by a physician friend. Maney is back on the bench in Florida, thanks to HBOT. You can read Maney's own testimony to Congress about HBOT on the website of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (search on the long page for "Maney").

HBOT has been found in many studies to heal TBI (a recent example from Harch; a 5-year study by Gaylan Rockswold MD, chief of neurosurgery at HCMC).

But DocVikingo, it sounded to me like you called Harch a quack? Or are you claiming his patients are just benefiting from a placebo effect? Ask Judge / retired General Maney if he thinks Harch is a quack.

Where's the Department of Defense in all this HBOT for Vets with TBI? Well, DoD MDs have vets taking powerful psycho-tropic drugs (with black box warnings), possibly for the rest of their lives (in Pharma contracts worth billions). That's got at least one mental health watchdog group claiming, "Our U.S. Military: Betrayed and Drugged - “Psychiatrists under contract with the Veteran Affairs—in my opinion—are legal drug dealers who almost took my life.”

DocVikingo, I've read that you are a mental health professional based in Washington DC, true? I personally know people who's lives have been saved by psycho-tropic drugs. Yet the largest corporate criminal fine in US history was for a drug company's inappropriate marketing of psychiatric drugs. Pharmaceutical companies have been fined billions for overly aggressive marketing tactics in just the last few years. DocVikingo, given your position and access to information, I'm curious to know your thoughts on these matters.

I believe: "all things in moderation" and "Trust, but verify."

My curiosity to 'verify' was piqued when I learned that the current exec director of the UHMS was in charge of DAN in 1992, when DAN published statistics that PADI and DEMA have promulgated ever since, to claim that (paraphrasing), "Diving is as safe as bowling." As I dug deeper, I discovered there was a group of ~20 HBOT MDs with impressive academic credentials, but who's work has, for years, been impugned in press interviews with senior UHMS officials. See:

The Polemics of Hyperbaric Medicine
and
Hyperbaric Medicine Officially Enters the Prohibition Era
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