Newbie questions about BP/W and how to set it up?

[alexis_tree]

I'm a newbie (12 dives) trying to get kitted up for Monterey Bay so that I can dive regularly here (1-2x/month?). I really like the idea of BP+W but I'm not sure how things work. I have a slew of questions and I would appreciate input.

I'm planning to dive with 7mm wetsuit or semi-dry (I tried it once and I wasn't cold). I got the Hollis ST Elite (35lb lift) set because it was open box sale and plan to get the Scubapro MK11/C370 (with free Octo) with yoke connector.

My goals are: reasonably priced mid-range products that will last me a long while; things I can take traveling with me; if I do get more advanced, maybe these can be my travel set and I'll get fancier stuff that the stores want to sell me (e.g. Halcyon BC, a 1st stage with a DIN connector, fancy dive computer with AI, etc). But I've been skiing for 25 years and I still only have one pair of all-terrain gear so that's sort of what I'm trying for with my scuba gear.

Sorry for the long intro, here are my questions:

1. Weights. I think I still want ditchable weights, since I'm new.

- Are there differences in how much weight for wetsuit vs semi-dry? For BP/W vs vest? The SS BP is 6lbs negative, and I used 14lbs when I was using rental wetsuit + vest + SS 80 tank. Does that mean I should plan for about 8 lbs of additional weight?

- How are weights typically attached to the diver? I see that there are ditchable pockets, but then some people say that that's bulky? If you use a weight belt, do you wear it over or under the harness/crotch strap?

- Soft vs hard weights? What considerations?

2. Bits and Bobs. I feel like I'm missing things that I need. For example, something to attach my octo to? Does the BC hose just hang over my shoulder? How do people generally attach things to their D-rings? What are the little things that I need to actually use my gear?

3. Gauge / Compass. I don't need a depth meter since I have a dive computer. But I do want to have a compass.

- Do people prefer a pressure gauge separate from a compass? Or an all-in-one gauge?

- Any brand/make recommendations or are they mostly the same?

- It seems like the pressure gauges are usually PSI or metric, but not both? How does that work if traveling? Are there ones that have both (like car speedometers)? Or do people just do the conversion in their heads if they need to?

4. Testing Gear. Specifically, how do people go around getting properly weighted and trimmed and all that? It takes me 1.5 hours to drive to Monterey. Can I just take it to my local pool to try? (I don't have tanks so I can just very awkwardly float around in my stuff, I guess.) Or should I pay extra for a private tour where they can help me with this?

5. How badly should I feel for not buying things from the LDS? I tried calling the LDSes, but they just don't offer the same promos as online. And none of them offered to sell me open box / used things. They just told me they don't do that. And I priced it out, the difference is at least $400 after taxes and everything. (I haven't yet bought anything non-returnable. So if there's a good, practical reason to buy from LDS, I would love to support them.)

Thanks for letting me type out my long winded questions.

 

[MidOH]

I'm a newbie (12 dives) trying to get kitted up for Monterey Bay so that I can dive regularly here (1-2x/month?). I really like the idea of BP+W but I'm not sure how things work. I have a slew of questions and I would appreciate input.

I'm planning to dive with 7mm wetsuit or semi-dry (I tried it once and I wasn't cold). I got the Hollis ST Elite (35lb lift) set because it was open box sale and plan to get the Scubapro MK11/C370 (with free Octo) with yoke connector.

My goals are: reasonably priced mid-range products that will last me a long while; things I can take traveling with me; if I do get more advanced, maybe these can be my travel set and I'll get fancier stuff that the stores want to sell me (e.g. Halcyon BC, a 1st stage with a DIN connector, fancy dive computer with AI, etc). But I've been skiing for 25 years and I still only have one pair of all-terrain gear so that's sort of what I'm trying for with my scuba gear.

No harm in going straight to a Halcyon bpw. I use the DGX and DSS varieties.

I use yoke regs on single tank. Din on everything else.

Might try a direct reg, on stage/pony bottles. But thats another thread.

Sorry for the long intro, here are my questions:

1. Weights. I think I still want ditchable weights, since I'm new.

I use those bungie block hard weight mounts from DGX or Piranha. Easy to slide around, but way more secure than floppy pockets. If I run them in the same spot all the time, I'll eventually thread them into the harness.


Sometimes on my waist belt. Sometimes on my shoulder straps, low by my rib cage.

I split my weight between BPW and my weight belt.

Belt is droppable. Bungie weight holders can be cut free in a split second.

- Are there differences in how much weight for wetsuit vs semi-dry? For BP/W vs vest? The SS BP is 6lbs negative, and I used 14lbs when I was using rental wetsuit + vest + SS 80 tank. Does that mean I should plan for about 8 lbs of additional weight?

Yes. I'll let others chime in about weight checks.

- How are weights typically attached to the diver? I see that there are ditchable pockets, but then some people say that that's bulky? If you use a weight belt, do you wear it over or under the harness/crotch strap?

Weight belt always goes under the crotch strap for me. So weight belt is always 100% on me. Its on me before I put on my rig. And its still on me if I take the rig off and hand it up. Crotch strap will catch it if it gets unsnapped, which is unlikely.

Weight belt is easy to drop. Pop my waist buckle, pop the weight belt buckle, and its gone. BPW ain't going nowhere unbuckled. Especially on the surface.

But, in some freak need, I can still remove my rig underwater without losing my weight belt. And Im still reasonably proper weighted. Mostly a silly training thing. Haven't done it since.

- Soft vs hard weights? What considerations?

Hard. And I only use 2 weights on a weight belt. Need more weight? I buy a bigger weight. Tons of small weights, is kinda sloppy.

I have some DGX weight pockets, if needed. But hate using them.
 

2. Bits and Bobs. I feel like I'm missing things that I need. For example, something to attach my octo to? Does the BC hose just hang over my shoulder? How do people generally attach things to their D-rings? What are the little things that I need to actually use my gear?

Wing hose goes through two lose bungie strings on my left chest strap. It's inflator hose goes through two pieces of tight rubber innertube on the left chest strap. A light tug moves the inflator easy.

My octo is on a bungie necklace. Primary has a bolt snap on its hose to clip on my shoulder d ring, on the boat.

My warm water rig only has 2 rings. Left waist belt ring holds my SPG. Crotch ring is for nothing. If my hands are needed for something, I might temporarily clip something there.

Cold water rig has a right waist ring added, and both shoulder rings added. For stage bottles or flashlights. Butt ring for towing something maybe. Never used it.

Some rubber innertube secures the flashlight some more.

Right waist d ring slso holds my spool, boltsnap, and working bolt snap. DSMB is rolled up and bungied to my plate on the right side.

3. Gauge / Compass. I don't need a depth meter since I have a dive computer. But I do want to have a compass.

Yep. And not just the digital one on your computer. $50 wasted. It's a bummer.

- Do people prefer a pressure gauge separate from a compass? Or an all-in-one gauge?

Compass is wrist mounted, like a watch.

Spg is on a hose. Clipped to left waist d ring.

Hate all in one consoles.

- Any brand/make recommendations or are they mostly the same?

- It seems like the pressure gauges are usually PSI or metric, but not both? How does that work if traveling? Are there ones that have both (like car speedometers)? Or do people just do the conversion in their heads if they need to?

Doesnt matter. Gauge says: "Yep, air." Thats it. I prefer psi, black face.

4. Testing Gear. Specifically, how do people go around getting properly weighted and trimmed and all that? It takes me 1.5 hours to drive to Monterey. Can I just take it to my local pool to try? (I don't have tanks so I can just very awkwardly float around in my stuff, I guess.) Or should I pay extra for a private tour where they can help me with this?

5. How badly should I feel for not buying things from the LDS? I tried calling the LDSes, but they just don't offer the same promos as online. And none of them offered to sell me open box / used things. They just told me they don't do that. And I priced it out, the difference is at least $400 after taxes and everything. (I haven't yet bought anything non-returnable. So if there's a good, practical reason to buy from LDS, I would love to support them.)

Cant always get a Bpw custom built, my way, at the LDS. I use my LDS for wetsuits, drysuits, fins, and masks. Not bpw, computer, etc. Only for stuff I need to try on.

Ill help them as much as I can.

Thanks for letting me type out my long winded questions.

 

[MidOH]

These things are brilliant.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I'm a newbie (12 dives) trying to get kitted up for Monterey Bay so that I can dive regularly here (1-2x/month?). I really like the idea of BP+W but I'm not sure how things work. I have a slew of questions and I would appreciate input.

I'm planning to dive with 7mm wetsuit or semi-dry (I tried it once and I wasn't cold). I got the Hollis ST Elite (35lb lift) set because it was open box sale and plan to get the Scubapro MK11/C370 (with free Octo) with yoke connector.

My goals are: reasonably priced mid-range products that will last me a long while; things I can take traveling with me; if I do get more advanced, maybe these can be my travel set and I'll get fancier stuff that the stores want to sell me (e.g. Halcyon BC, a 1st stage with a DIN connector, fancy dive computer with AI, etc). But I've been skiing for 25 years and I still only have one pair of all-terrain gear so that's sort of what I'm trying for with my scuba gear.

Sorry for the long intro, here are my questions:

1. Weights. I think I still want ditchable weights, since I'm new.

- Are there differences in how much weight for wetsuit vs semi-dry? For BP/W vs vest? The SS BP is 6lbs negative, and I used 14lbs when I was using rental wetsuit + vest + SS 80 tank. Does that mean I should plan for about 8 lbs of additional weight?

- How are weights typically attached to the diver? I see that there are ditchable pockets, but then some people say that that's bulky? If you use a weight belt, do you wear it over or under the harness/crotch strap?

- Soft vs hard weights? What considerations?

2. Bits and Bobs. I feel like I'm missing things that I need. For example, something to attach my octo to? Does the BC hose just hang over my shoulder? How do people generally attach things to their D-rings? What are the little things that I need to actually use my gear?

3. Gauge / Compass. I don't need a depth meter since I have a dive computer. But I do want to have a compass.

- Do people prefer a pressure gauge separate from a compass? Or an all-in-one gauge?

- Any brand/make recommendations or are they mostly the same?

- It seems like the pressure gauges are usually PSI or metric, but not both? How does that work if traveling? Are there ones that have both (like car speedometers)? Or do people just do the conversion in their heads if they need to?

4. Testing Gear. Specifically, how do people go around getting properly weighted and trimmed and all that? It takes me 1.5 hours to drive to Monterey. Can I just take it to my local pool to try? (I don't have tanks so I can just very awkwardly float around in my stuff, I guess.) Or should I pay extra for a private tour where they can help me with this?

5. How badly should I feel for not buying things from the LDS? I tried calling the LDSes, but they just don't offer the same promos as online. And none of them offered to sell me open box / used things. They just told me they don't do that. And I priced it out, the difference is at least $400 after taxes and everything. (I haven't yet bought anything non-returnable. So if there's a good, practical reason to buy from LDS, I would love to support them.)

Thanks for letting me type out my long winded questions.

Take a look at this video about Backplate/Wing vs. Jacket:


As to equipment, I purchased a lot of stuff I didn't need and ended up spending more money than if I just went straight to a GUE configuration.

 

[lowwall]

1. Weights. I think I still want ditchable weights, since I'm new.

- Are there differences in how much weight for wetsuit vs semi-dry? For BP/W vs vest? The SS BP is 6lbs negative, and I used 14lbs when I was using rental wetsuit + vest + SS 80 tank. Does that mean I should plan for about 8 lbs of additional weight?

- How are weights typically attached to the diver? I see that there are ditchable pockets, but then some people say that that's bulky? If you use a weight belt, do you wear it over or under the harness/crotch strap?

- Soft vs hard weights? What considerations?

A semi-dry is a wetsuit. The weight will be roughly the same for equal thicknesses of neoprene. For BP/W versus vest, it depends on how much floaty stuff like cushioning is built into each. But vests are usually neutral to a couple of pounds positive. Your 8lbs is a reasonable starting point if you are using the same tank.

With only 8 pounds, you can either attach a couple of small (5lb max) trim pockets to your waist belt or use a weight belt. I'd probably start with the weight belt because it makes things easier to handle on a shore entry and if you ever need to take your gear off underwater, it will be a lot simpler since you won't be floating away from your rig. Finally, if you've greatly underestimated your weight, you won't need to buy bigger pockets. Put the weight belt on first (under the crotch strap).

Hard weights. Soft weights are relatively bulky and fragile, can't be threaded onto a weight belt, and shed lead oxide.

2. Bits and Bobs. I feel like I'm missing things that I need. For example, something to attach my octo to? Does the BC hose just hang over my shoulder? How do people generally attach things to their D-rings? What are the little things that I need to actually use my gear?

If you are doing a standard octo donate, a silicone snorkle keeper works pretty well. One end through the right chest d-ring and the other around the mouthpiece of the reg. Check that it's still there on or at the end of your initial descent. Practice pulling it out and putting it back in without looking. At some point you may decide to go to primary donate (you take your primary reg out of your mouth to give to the out of air buddy) and then the octo goes on a bungee cord around your neck.

BC hose goes through a velcro loop that's built into the harness you bought. If you ever switch to a pure webbing harness, you can use something similar or just attach a bungee loop to your left chest d-ring.

You attach things like lights and SMBs to d-rings with a tied on bolt snap. You tie it on so if it gets stuck on something, you can cut it free. Here's a search that will give you plenty of examples on the correct knot or you can use the breakaway doohickey linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tie+a+bolt+snap

Hose Clip Retainer

Use this handy reusable bungee loop retainer to attach a clip or bolt snap to any SCUBA hose. Sold individually, order one retainer for each clip you need to attach.

www.divegearexpress.com

3. Gauge / Compass. I don't need a depth meter since I have a dive computer. But I do want to have a compass.

- Do people prefer a pressure gauge separate from a compass? Or an all-in-one gauge?

- Any brand/make recommendations or are they mostly the same?

- It seems like the pressure gauges are usually PSI or metric, but not both? How does that work if traveling? Are there ones that have both (like car speedometers)? Or do people just do the conversion in their heads if they need to?

Compasses are kind of hard to use on a console, so most folks who use them for actual navigation as opposed to the occasional glance for orientation prefer to have them on wrist mounted (or on a nav board, but that's rare in recreational diving). Usually right wrist since the computer is on the left wrist.

Analog SPG works best as a standalone gauge that gets clipped (using a boltsnap tied to the hose close to the gauge) to the left hip d-ring. Some folks prefer the left chest d-ring as they can check it without unclipping.

Brand doesn't matter, almost all of the analog SPGs are made in the same factory in Italy, You can get them with both PSI and BAR markings if you want. If you have to choose one, you'll want PSI if you are mostly diving in the US and Caribbean/Mexico. BAR in the rest of the world.

4. Testing Gear. Specifically, how do people go around getting properly weighted and trimmed and all that? It takes me 1.5 hours to drive to Monterey. Can I just take it to my local pool to try? (I don't have tanks so I can just very awkwardly float around in my stuff, I guess.) Or should I pay extra for a private tour where they can help me with this?

If you don't have an experienced buddy who is willing to help you out with this, I think it would be worth hiring an instructor for a couple of hours. I don't know the shops there, maybe someone can chime in. Or you can ask in the NorCal forum NorCal

5. How badly should I feel for not buying things from the LDS? I tried calling the LDSes, but they just don't offer the same promos as online. And none of them offered to sell me open box / used things. They just told me they don't do that. And I priced it out, the difference is at least $400 after taxes and everything. (I haven't yet bought anything non-returnable. So if there's a good, practical reason to buy from LDS, I would love to support them.)

Not bad. IMO, a business needs to earn their customers. If they didn't even try to work with you, then apparently they aren't interested. When you decide to buy tanks, talk to them again and see what kind of fill deals they'll offer if you buy from them.

 

[Cthippo]

My Hollis BP/W came with ditchable weight pockets for up to 20 lbs of soft weights and then I wear a DUI harness under that with more weight.

I run a console computer with integrated compass attached to my right shoulder strap at about the nipple line. The reason for this is that I am a firefighter and that is where my gauge and PASS alarm are mounted on an SCBA and so rather than fight the muscle memory, I just adapted my SCUBA rig to work the same as my SCBA.

You don't owe your LDS anything. The one closest to me gives me the stink eye every time I walk in, and so I get most of my stuff online and go to the one an hour away for hydros and the like. Go where you are wanted.

 

[KenE]

I also use a 7mm semi-dry. Get the Mako rubber weight belt and hard weights. You won't need to tighten when you suit compresses. Put as much weight on the belt as your suit requires to be neutral, then put the rest on the bc. I put some on the cam band as well. Use the belt to figure out how much then move as needed. Wrist or lanyard mounted compass is best. Ditching weight was a major concern for me when I started, but many years later and I still have never dropped a weight belt intentionally. It only takes a pound or two in a thick wetsuit to start an ascent and then the wetsuit expands and away you go. Soft weights work well in pouches because the mold better than solid weights. I use both, but don't get a soft weight belt as it is a pain to rinse and dry. Solid weight clean and dry much easier, so use them where you can.

There are many different octo holders out their, I found the basic snorkel keeper works the best.

I will second the notion that you need to find an experienced buddy or hire a DM to help sort it all out. Trying to learn weight on the internet is difficult, you need someone in the water with you.

I wear my computer on my right arm, this leaves my left hand free to vent gas from BC on ascent on a line. In current on a mooring line you will need to keep one hand on the line. I found it easier to keep my right hand on line and left hand on deflator. Therefore it was easier to read computer on right arm because it was right in from of me. I would suggest a compass on left wrist as you are not likely going to use it on ascent.

As you gain experience you will find other ways to do things and adjust accordingly. Keep it fun, and keep diving, it is the best way to learn!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have an 11 page essay on BPW's and it includes info on weight options, setting the rig up, adjusting the harness (with photos), and why you really don't need ditchable weight in the amounts most people think they do.
Too many people think about a BPW, and gear in general, the way many open water classes teach them to. And A LOT of it is not quite correct, some of it is just plain wrong, and some is actually dangerous.
The essay also includes advice on regulator setup and configuration.
I need an email via PM to send it to anyone who asks.

 

[Gelirfella]

I think it’s hard to beat the GUE gear configuration as a starting point for a new diver on a bp/w. That’s what I am and that’s what I did. It’s worked out quite well. And there are lots of good resources out there. It’s just a setup that works. For weight I started with a weight belt and hard weights worn under the harness. If you weight properly I’m not sure the need to ditch weight is likely to arise and if it does you can get the belt out from under the crotch strap. I just started my transition to doubles and nothing really changed which is nice.

 

[gordonscuba]