Nitrox cleaning for BCD?

[cudachaser]

Come on...we are supposed to be trained on simple physics and chemistry

 

[Phil Mintz]

Simply ignore that... That was from a manual they had years ago when the attorneys for all the manufacturers were scared... and I guess they copy and pasted from some old stuff - it is not a concern. Phil (president of Mares) addressed this before in another post a while back.

So no... fear not - you will not burst into flames at 100 feet if you run nitrox into your BC.

As both Larry and Zak stated, our current manuals cover this. The reason we post here is to answer concerns and support consumers & dealers. As most understand, what is actual fact vs. what must be posted according to different regional requirements are sometimes different. It is always a matter of safety first and I fully agree with this.

Phil

 

[Charlie99]

As most understand, what is actual fact vs. what must be posted according to different regional requirements are sometimes different. Phil

Are there any regions (EU??) where you must include a "nitrox cleaning" warning for a BCD?

Is this something we should expect to see on a BCD in Europe, independent of manufacturer?

 

[Phil Mintz]

Sorry, I am not familiar with EU standards, nor what other manufacturers may state on their manuals.

 

[Charlie99]

Sorry, I am not familiar with EU standards, nor what other manufacturers may state on their manuals.

So why was the silly warning EVER put into the Mares BCD manual?

As most understand, what is actual fact vs. what must be posted according to different regional requirements are sometimes different

The above made it sound like you were saying that there was some sort of "regional requirement" to put the warning about nitrox cleaning in a BCD manual. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you were trying to pass off to some other authority the responsiblity for the silly warning printed in the Mares BCD manual.

Edit: Curious about what your current manuals say, I looked at the Mares website.
http://www.mares.com/download_bcvests.php?region=USA

The first 3 BCD manuals I looked at, including the Morphos, all still have the warning:

MARES BCs are designed and constructed exclusively for use
with compressed atmospheric air.
Do not use this MARES BC with other gases or with oxygenrich
mixtures. Failure to observe this warning may result in
premature wear of the equipment, defective operation or
risk of explosion, resulting in potentially serious damage.
The conversion of a MARES BC for use with oxygen-rich
mixtures must be carried out exclusively by trained and
qualified technicians who are perfectly familiar with all the
cleaning and assembly procedures for high pressure oxygen
systems (with oxygen content exceeding 21±2%).

The manual also had the helpful suggestion:

MARES supplies its authorized dealers with a kit for converting
MARES BCs for use with oxygen rich mixtures (Nitrox - maximum
oxygen content: 40%). If, after the conversion, the BC is used with
normal compressed air, it will be necessary for a trained MARES
technician to repeat the entire conversion procedure before using the
BC with oxygen-rich mixtures again. This is because the BC may be
contaminated with traces of hydrocarbons or other impurities that
could spark combustion.

The above is even stranger than the warning, since it doesn't seem to be any sort of mandated warning, but instead is in the body text of the manual. Does this kit really exist?

As both Larry and Zak stated, our current manuals cover this.

Really? So the manuals you have online aren't the current manuals?

 

[RickPeck]

I wasn't so worried about the "explosion hazard" since it runs off of LP gas. It was more the conversion kit and premature wear issue. I am assuming that means new O'rings made from Viton. I wouldn't think Mares would be so dumb as to use petroleum based lubricants in dive equipment.

Rick

 

[Thalassamania]

In my experience, which includes using MARES regulators with 100% O2, I've found that they usually know what they're doing.

 

[Phil Mintz]

So why was the silly warning EVER put into the Mares BCD manual?

The above made it sound like you were saying that there was some sort of "regional requirement" to put the warning about nitrox cleaning in a BCD manual. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you were trying to pass off to some other authority the responsiblity for the silly warning printed in the Mares BCD manual.

Edit: Curious about what your current manuals say, I looked at the Mares website.
http://www.mares.com/download_bcvests.php?region=USA

Maybe I wasn't clear, but those that do know me here know I don;t pass off anything. What I was trying to state is that there are different regulations as to what you can state in different areas, not that there is a required statement. Please don't take this wrong as I do not know what can be done or not done out side of North America. I am simply not as informed as it is not my area of responsibility.

If you were to download a manual for a current model IE: Dragon, it would state the following:

 WARNINGFOR NORTH AMERICA ONLYMares regulators, alternative second stages, and gas delivery components are designed for and compatible with open circuit SCUBA using compressed air or enriched air (Nitrox) mixtures not exceeding 40% Oxygen ONLY.These limits conform to the DAN Nitrox Industry Workshop Proceedings of November, 2000.Failure to follow this warning may result in SERIOUS INJURY or DEATH to the user due to fire, explosion, or the deterioration or failure of the equipment.

A BC is covered by this, I do agree it could specifically state BC to be clearer (that change will be made on the next printing) but this should answer anyones concern.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

Phil

 

[Charlie99]

If you were to download a manual for a current model IE: Dragon, it would state the following:

Phil. Which manual are you talking about? Please provide a link to the updated manual.

The two online manuals for Dragon BCDs do indeed have the text you quoted about your regulators being ok up to 40%, but they also still have the warnings about use of the BCD with other than compressed air, and telling people to go buy a nitrox conversion kit.

In addition to mentioning that your regulators are good for nitrox, in a manual for a BCD, it would be appropriate to remove the various "don't use nitrox in your BCD" warnings that are still in the Dragon manuals posted online.

While this whole issue may seem to be a trivial one to you, not worth looking at what is really in the latest manuals online, there is enough misinformation about nitrox cleaning circulating already, without a reputable manufacturer continuing to post recommendations to convert BCDs to nitrox usage with nitrox kits, and warnings that they much be cleaned by trained MARES technicians if the BC is used wth normal compressed air.

Charlie Allen

MARES supplies its authorized dealers with a kit for converting MARES BCs for use with oxygen rich mixtures (Nitrox - maximum oxygen content: 40%). If, after the conversion, the BC is used with normal compressed air, it will be necessary for a trained MARES technician to repeat the entire conversion procedure before using the BC with oxygen-rich mixtures again. This is because the BC may be contaminated with traces of hydrocarbons or other impurities which could spark combustion.
 WARNINGMARES BCs are designed and constructed exclusively for use with compressed atmospheric air. Do not use this MARES BC with other gases or with oxygen-rich mixtures. Failure to observe this warning may result in premature wear of the equipment, defective operation or risk of explosion, resulting in potentially serious damage. The conversion of a MARES BC for use with oxygen-rich mixtures must be carried out exclusively by trained and qualified technicians who are perfectly familiar with all the cleaning and assembly procedures for high pressure oxygen systems (with oxygen content exceeding 21±2%).
 DANGERDo not use any MARES BC with oxygen rich mixtures (Nitrox - Maximum oxygen content: 40%) without having first received adequate training on their use: Failure to observe this warning may result in a serious accident.
WHEN REPAIR OR SERVICING IS REQUIRED, THIS SHOULD BE PERFORMED ONLY BY MARES OR BY A MARES AUTHORIZED SERVICE CENTER.

and

MARES supplies its authorized dealers with a kit for converting MARES BCs for use with oxygen rich mixtures (Nitrox - maximum oxygen content: 40%). If, after the conversion, the BC is used with normal compressed air, it will be necessary for a trained MARES technician to repeat the entire conversion procedure before using the BC with oxygen-rich mixtures again. This is because the BC may be contaminated with traces of hydrocarbons or other impurities which could spark combustion.
 WARNINGMARES BCs are designed and constructed exclusively for use with compressed atmospheric air. Do not use this MARES BC with other gases or with oxygen-rich mixtures. Failure to observe this warning may result in premature wear of the equipment, defective operation or risk of explosion, resulting in potentially serious damage. The conversion of a MARES BC for use with oxygen-rich mixtures must be carried out exclusively by trained and qualified technicians who are perfectly familiar with all the cleaning and assembly procedures for high pressure oxygen systems (with oxygen content exceeding 21±2%).
 DANGERDo not use any MARES BC with oxygen rich mixtures (Nitrox - Maximum oxygen content: 40%) without having first received adequate training on their use: Failure to observe this warning may result in a serious accident.

p.s. The two online manuals I quote above are
http://www.mares.com/download.php?id=43
http://www.mares.com/download.php?id=90
Those are the only two manuals for Dragon BCD that I see on the Mares website.

 

[JeffG]

People Read BCD manuals?