No Octo while diving with redundant air supply

[Nemrod]

What is the meaning of root in Australia?

The meaning of root in Australia is similar to shag in the UK or screw in the US. If Aussies ask for a root, they’re not talking about plants…

australiatravelquestions.com

You will note that I am not Australian, I might ask God if I can be in my next life or British so I can have a British passport but then there is all that silly royalty and King and Queen stuff I would choke up on. But just gonna say, you guys down under are just a bit off .

Being from the Deep South and Gulf Coast, to root through something is synonymous with to dig through something but more casually so, to root is without specific purpose, to dig through is with purpose, a more active specific search for a particular item. At least that is my take.

 

[MB NZ]

Best quote on the internet. Australia is British Texas

 

[rfwoodvt]

You will note that I am not Australian, I might ask God if I can be in my next life or British so I can have a British passport but then there is all that silly royalty and King and Queen stuff I would choke up on. But just gonna say, you guys down under are just a bit off .

Being from the Deep South and Gulf Coast, to root through something is synonymous with to dig through something but more casually so, to root is without specific purpose, to dig through is with purpose, a more active specific search for a particular item. At least that is my take.

Rooting is to downunder like rutting is to rednecks

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Well, I’ve read through this thread completely, and according to several of you I should be dead. Why? Well, I started solo diving in 1959, before I got certified (LA County, 1963–there were no instructors in my area of Salem, Oregon). I’ve been solo diving ever since. Yes, I do buddy dive occasionally, and did several decades ago too. I’ve never gotten certified as a solo diver, although in the U.S. Air Force we made parascuba jumps on the Apollo capsule and for training, which is also solo. I have also never dived with a pony bottle. I do have a rig that accepts two independent regulators, and have dived twin 72s without a manifold and two regulators, but most of my solo diving is either with my Trieste II regulator with a MR-12 octopus, or my Mossback Mk 3 regulator (a converted DA Aquamaster) with a Calypso octopus. And, of course, I have dived my PJ tanks (small 42 cubic foot doubles) with only a Mistral or a Healthways hybrid Scuba double hose regulators. I dive mostly rivers, but occasionally at the Oregon coast (several years ago). I have also been known to dive my original Calypso regulator an a long hose and with a second generation Calypso on its neck strap (not a “neckless”).

In all those years, I’ve had two major regulator malfunctions, which I’ve listed elsewhere (both second stage failures, but not free flows), which required me to use my octopus and continue the dive. When I was diving the single stage, double hose regulators I never had a malfunction. I got to using an octopus when diving on the Warm Mineral Springs Underwater Archaeological Project, at the insistance of Sonny Cockrell and Larry Murphy, who were in charge of that aspect.

I dived solo before BCDs existed, in Oregon rivers and lakes. These were not deep dives, but some were in high current rivers (the North Santiam, North Umpqua, Deschutes, Clackamas, and Tualatin rivers, mainly). I invented my own BCD, the Para-Sea BC, which never sold but which I’m still using (the prototype). I’ve experimented with different BCDs, such as the Dacor Nautilus CVS (I have two of them) and continue to dive some, including a White Stag hard shell BCD, which originally was orally inflated. I continue to dive some of my regulator collection (I have a lot of different double hose and single hose regulators, which are dive-able).

So by all your discussion here of solo diving safety and the configuration for a certified solo diver, I should not now be able to type this out. But realize that if anything really happens, I also have the option of immediately surfacing and breathing atmospheric air from my snorkel (yes, I always dive a snorkel, as well as a big, sharp dive knife). I have to cut fishing line regularly when I dive these rivers too.

I have no plans to take a solo dive course either, as I don’t think the instructors have the experiences that I have, and I don’t think there would be much value in doing so.

I do have a few remarks about slinging a pony bottle in front of your, or even to one’s side. I have now spent decades researching underwater swimming techniques, and find that slung or tied bottles create quite a drag on the diver underwater. Where you dive that may not be important, but in high current rivers it is. Because of that aspect, I will probably never use that technique. Having that pony bottle in front also inhibits grabbing onto bottom river rocks, and creates a snagging hazard.

Now, here’s one other aspect; I’m a retired Certified Safety Professional (CSP) who has worked in occupational safety and health for decades before retiring. All this extra equipment serves two purposes in my opinion.

—It enriches the dive shop that sells you this equipment, and therefore overhauls it annually.
—It gets the instructional agencies off the hook for certifying individual who don’t have the water skills to actually handle themselves in the water, and therefore become equipment-dependent.

Much of this discussion is around equipment choices, mixing up second stages, etc. We didn’t have that problem when there was only one regulator, with one second stage. If something happened to it, you simply surfaced.

SeaRat

 

[Nemrod]

I do have a few remarks about slinging a pony bottle in front of your, or even to one’s side. I have now spent decades researching underwater swimming techniques, and find that slung or tied bottles create quite a drag on the diver underwater. Where you dive that may not be important, but in high current rivers it is. Because of that aspect, I will probably never use that technique. Having that pony bottle in front also inhibits grabbing onto bottom river rocks, and creates a snagging hazard.

Just to clarify, at least for myself, my pony/buddy bottle is up under my armpit. Since my arms are crossed in front or under or out front holding my camera the bottle is tucked up in the pocket created by my shoulder and armpit and therefore is not particularly in the way or creating additional drag as it is behind my shhoulder. I guess the valve area does hang down a tiny bit. When I first started slinging a bottle it was down in front as you think but because I carry a camera I cannot have my bottle and camera occupying the same space at the same time and the camera is priority one. So I relocated the rear clip, shortened the leash and moved the attach point from my left waist D ring to the rear of my plate and added a bungee in the front plus a shorter leash to pull the valve end up into my shoulder. And I am still refining the slinging.

 

[Angelo Farina]

We didn’t have that problem when there was only one regulator, with one second stage. If something happened to it, you simply surfaced.

SeaRat

While I agree with most of your post, this idea that "surfacing is simple" bothers me slightly.
Since my first course in 1975, I was taught that any problem should be solved staying down, not surfacing.
That is the very last resort, and if forced to surface, one had done several errors.
I also started diving with a single reg, and did this for at least 4 years.
Then, in 1979, while penetrating a narrow cavern for catching a lobster, I suffered a problem due to the valve closing while rattling against rocks.
I was suddenly OOA while still trapped inside the hole, with just my fins outside. Luckily my girlfriend perceived I was in trouble, pulled me outside the hole grabbing my fins, and provided air to me by sharing her single reg.
After reaching the deco stop at 6m (we were at 42m and with some deco obligation) I analysed what happened, understanding that the problem was the valve, opened it and we had all my air available for performing a correct deco.
If I was solo, the situation could have evolved quite badly, and "simply surfacing" could have been impossible or very dangerous.
After that accident I immediately purchased a second complete reg for me and my GF. Of course identical to our primary regs (SP MK5+109).
We are stll using those 4 regs!
All tanks here always had two valves, so not using the second valve revelead to be a stupid choice
And this also for buddy diving (I do not like solo).
So yes, both you and me survived using a single reg. Someone else did not survive, indeed.
And we all should agree that using a single reg, even if equipped with an octo, is not 100% safe: only two fully independent regs on two separate valves provide the redundancy required when diving deep, with deco, in caverns, or solo (which I do not like).

 

[Nemrod]

Simply surfacing is not always possible. But as a non-technical level solo diver, we should not be putting ourselves inside holes or into deco or into places and conditions where direct to surface is not possible. But, still, reality is that direct to surface is just not always possible.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

@Angelo Farina,

42 meters is 137.795 feet, or on tables 140 feet. My NAUI Dive Tables for sport diving only go down to 130 feet. And, at 130 feet, the maximum dive time was 8 minutes, with a 5 minute stop required at 15 feet. Also, you were in an overhead environment. Both these facts disqualify this as a sport dive. So your measures were justified for a technical dive. "...'simply surfacing' could have been impossible or very dangerous..." Yes, which is why it is outside the sport diving realm. I did not have that problem with my diving in Oregon rivers and lakes. Even in Clear Lake (see the photo below), we were very careful not to exceed the NDL, and stay away from the "knife edge" of these limits, and for Clear Lake (4,000 feet altitude) used the Cross Tables to compensate and stay away from a decompression obligation.

SeaRat

 

[Angelo Farina]

@Angelo Farina,

42 meters is 137.795 feet, or on tables 140 feet. My NAUI Dive Tables for sport diving only go down to 130 feet. And, at 130 feet, the maximum dive time was 8 minutes, with a 5 minute stop required at 15 feet. Also, you were in an overhead environment. Both these facts disqualify this as a sport dive. So your measures were justified for a technical dive. "...'simply surfacing' could have been impossible or very dangerous..." Yes, which is why it is outside the sport diving realm. I did not have that problem with my diving in Oregon rivers and lakes. Even in Clear Lake (see the photo below), we were very careful not to exceed the NDL, and stay away from the "knife edge" of these limits, and for Clear Lake (4,000 feet altitude) used the Cross Tables to compensate and stay away from a decompression obligation.

SeaRat

At the time we were using US Navy tables, as modified by CMAS (so total diving time included ascent at 10 m/min).
At 42m we had a total planned diving time up to 25 min, with two deco stops: 2 min at 6m, 14 min at 3m.
and in case of some delay, the next entry on the table was 30 min, requiring 5 min at 6m and 21 min at 3m.
A bit too long for my taste, but still feasible with the amount of air we were carrying (4000 liters each).
We also had an additional emergency 10 liters tank hanging below our boat at 6m. I never needed to use it, indeed...
Here recreational diving is up to 50m and with deco on back gas, so this was a normal recreational dive, for us.
We were trained for it, but not properly equipped, as the experience did show: we were using twin tanks, BCD, reserve, SPG, but not a full secondary regulator.
Ok, I should not have been following the lobster when it retracted inside the hole, it was a stupid decision: but both my feet were still outside, it was not a cave, just one of the many holes typical of Mediterranean coast (Isola d'Elba).
Some are pass-through, some are closed, as this one.
Water was warm, cristal-clear (from 40m I was seeing our small boat above us), no current, no waves.
Absolutely benign conditions, this was not a risky technical dive.
Doing a couple of short deco stops was the rule, and we always considered a dive planned and executed with a short deco to be safer than a dive planned "on the edge" of NDL, which can result in an unplanned deco dive at the minimal delay.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

@Angelo Farina,

Yes, your calculations are correct for the U.S. Navy Dive Tables from March 1970. However, this is a planned decompression dive, requiring stops of 2 minutes at 10 feet (6 meters) and 14 minutes at 10 feet (3 meters). A NDL dive to this depth would be 10 minutes using these tables. You were technical diving, or as we used to say, "decompression diving," not sport diving, under NAUI terms at that time. My discussion of solo diving above was about using the sport diving criterion; once into decompression diving, it's a whole different aspect of the sport. Here are the altitude diving corrections we used for Clear Lake.

SeaRat