Not so good certification.

[Edward3c]

I'm not sure this is the right forum but just wanted to share this.
My neighbor just got certified OW but he didn't want to go to the LDS I recommended. He found a deal. I spent to much money on my son's certification a few months earlier. Someone knew someone who would teach him and certify. After some classes at I don't know where and no pool classes he waited about 6 months for the "guy" to do the open water checkout. Well, it happened at a boat launch in the intracoastal waterway. With boats trying to launch. In 0 visibility. In no more than 6' of water. And barge traffic.
I don't know what agency it was but at least he is certified.

Hi,

International Standards state:

Diver level one - Supervised Diver
(BS EN 14153-1:2003 and ISO 24801-1:2007)
To reach this level, divers must complete at least two open-water dives of 15 minutes each. Once qualified, a Supervised Diver can dive:
• To a maximum depth of 12 metres, on dives that don’t require in-water decompression stops andwhere there is appropriate support at the surface
• In groups of up to four level-one scuba divers under the guidance of a dive leader


Diver level two - Autonomous Diver
(BS EN 14153-2:2003 and ISO 24801-2:2007)
Training for level two must include at least four open-water dives. A level-two diver is qualified to dive:
• To a maximum depth of 20 metres, on dives that don’t require in-water decompression stops andwhere there is appropriate support at the surface
• With other divers of the same level without the direct supervision of an instructor


Diver level three - Dive Leader
(BS EN 14153-3:2003 and ISO 24801-3:2007)
Qualified Dive Leaders may act as dive marshals or divemasters, organizing groups of other divers. They may also help to control students and improvesafety, but may not assess or teach.

What you describe does not even comply with level 1.

Kind regards

 

[Mike2Fst]

What more can one expect when he/she seeks out and trains with the cheapest instructor ( if he is indeed a legit instructor )? Diving is one of those inherently dangerous sports, it's what one doesn't know that will be his/her demise. Maybe the neighbor weighed what the value of his life is and went with that price. I'll never understand the "cheap mindset" with regards to diving and safety. Wouldn't recommend diving with this guy.

 

[theduckguru]

Maybe the "neighbor" has obtained what he desired. A certification card with least expenditure of effort/time/money. If that is the case, it is unlikely the OP will convince him to get additional training.

 

[The Chairman]

I've seen this guy on a dive boat before or at least someone just like him. He bragged about getting the very cheapest class he could, telling my OW student what patsy he was for spending so much. When he splashed, he couldn't descend. The boat gave him enough weight to sink a battle ship and finally, he let the air out of his BC. My student had no such issues and we had a lot of fun: AWAY from the other diver. When we got back on the boat, Mr Cheap was already there and had even had time to get his tank changed over. His first words were "What took you guys so long?" He had been on the boat for thirty minutes and was anxious to get back in. My student went on and on about the creatures he saw. Mr Cheap went on and on about the fire coral he camped in. Mr Cheap had expected me and my student to buddy with him. We, along with all the other divers, were already gone when he finally descended so he spent his entire 20 minute dive beneath the boat. After all, he didn't want to get lost! After the second dive, I announced that my student had finished his training and was now a certified diver. Mr Cheap was completely surprised and thought that he had been diving for years. My student looked at him and said something like "the bitterness of low quality lasts far longer than the sweetness of a cheap price". I kinda wish I had written it down now.

Anyway, a year passed and I got a call from Mr Cheap. He had taken one of my cards and had actually joined ScubaBoard and knew how to get hold of me. His son wanted to learn to dive and after what he saw, he wanted me to teach him regardless of the cost. I accepted his son as a student on the condition that Mr Cheap come and be his buddy, taking the class all over again. No, I didn't ask to be compensated for that either, but I wanted to make sure his son had a safe buddy. There were so many things that his son was introduced to that completely floored Mr Cheap. I think my favorite was teaching him to breath on his regulator while watching his SPG before we splashed. That caused Mr Cheap to stop, sit down and start to curse his old instructor rather vehemently. Sure enough, Mr Cheap had made this mistake a month earlier and felt that he had almost died because of it. He also learned how to get neutral and trim... just like his son. When we went for the check out dives, Mr Cheap was in control of his diving, just as his son was. After his son was certified he gave me the biggest tip I ever got. He said it was to cover his class. I can't call him Mr Cheap after that. Then he said something that again, I wish I had written it down for posterity, "Good training isn't expensive: It's priceless." That's as close as I can remember. I see him and his son every few years to go diving again. I am sending him a link to this thread as well. It's a good lesson in false economies.

While you don't always get what you paid for, you almost never get something you didn't pay for. If a deal is too good to be true, then it's probably not true. In other words, I wouldn't go looking for a plastic surgeon on Groupon.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Value is not determined by price alone. Other factors to consider: convenience as to location and times; quality of instruction; safety; quality of facilities; quality of rental gear if used; affiliation with a recognized certification agency; and probably many more. dahodevil's neighbor found a deal, a bad deal.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Wookie]

The sad part is that someone who gets a shortcut on classes probably won't find diving as enjoyable as someone who gets proper training and has equipment that they trust and that fits well. Shortcutting training just drives divers away from diving and into golf, riding 4 wheelers, and all of the other things that drive us to distraction. It was a lesson I learned only too well when I operated in the Flower Gardens. Flower Gardens diving is not for the faint of heart, and it isn't for brand newbies. Dive shops would send their brand new OW graduates to the Flower Gardens on my boat, where the seas could be 6 feet, or 2 feet when you get in and 11 when you get out, and I had more than one guest sell their scuba gear on the boat because they weren't ever diving again.

Operators driving people from the sport is one of the biggest downfalls of the industry. Piss poor instructors who don't really give a damn is also high on that list.

 

[TSandM]

NetDoc, that is simply a WONDERFUL story! It's also great that Mr. Cheap had the grace to take your offer. People aren't always willing to consider that they might have more to learn.

 

[Dahodevil]

Yeah, cheap is usually very expensive. Buy cheap paint and you need twice as much. That's double the labor too. Cheap transmittion is likely to break sooner. Cheap diving lessons.... Well I'd rather not say.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The sad part is that someone who gets a shortcut on classes probably won't find diving as enjoyable as someone who gets proper training and has equipment that they trust and that fits well. Shortcutting training just drives divers away from diving and into golf, riding 4 wheelers, and all of the other things that drive us to distraction. It was a lesson I learned only too well when I operated in the Flower Gardens. Flower Gardens diving is not for the faint of heart, and it isn't for brand newbies. Dive shops would send their brand new OW graduates to the Flower Gardens on my boat, where the seas could be 6 feet, or 2 feet when you get in and 11 when you get out, and I had more than one guest sell their scuba gear on the boat because they weren't ever diving again.

Operators driving people from the sport is one of the biggest downfalls of the industry. Piss poor instructors who don't really give a damn is also high on that list.

That needs to be a sticky.

 

[261311]

Reminds me of an old boss that decided to hand out forklift certifications at work one day that he bought for all of us even though none of us in the office actually worked in receiving and had training.

If you like your neighbor have him go through someone reputable, pursue the ex-"instructor" for a refund and report him to whatever agency the certification came from. No I wouldn't go as far as to pay $5000 for a open water certification (there is such a thing as paying too much) but you can pay too little. Even if you don't like him, you may want to give him a quick run-down of the training you/ your son received and why it's valuable and may encourage more safety.

While you don't always get what you paid for, you almost never get something you didn't pay for. If a deal is too good to be true, then it's probably not true. In other words, I wouldn't go looking for a plastic surgeon on Groupon.

Buy one boob implant get the next half-off? :blinking: